SSN Not Required

[Morton Thomson Jr.]

"Rare is the case that an employer actually needs an SSN. Indeed the Social Security Administration admits the numbers are actually their property and further that “no one needs an SSN to work in the United States.”

This latter fact isn't widely known, but NOT knowing and demanding an SSN where no authority to demand exists could get the employee demanding same, and his employer, involved in a civil action. Our recommendation is frankly to not push the SSN issue with employees. If an employee provides an SSN even on taxation forms it should only be done voluntarily and with NO adverse actions taken in case he refuses.

Form I-9: To our knowledge the only spot that asks for an actual SSN (and not an implied TIN) is on form I-9. However nothing in the law actually states the employee must provide the number. Because primarily government forms are intended for government employees, the majority of "spots for information" are considered voluntary when used by the general population NOT engaged in federal employment.

A twist: Indeed, the restrictions of public law regarding I-9 disclosures can actually RESTRICT the employer from using that number on ANY other form. In other words, do not assume you have the employee's permission to use that number on any other form or in any other way simply be virtue of its disclosure on Form I-9. You could possibly be in violation of the laws behind Form I-9!

Form W-4, Form W-2, Form W-3 and Form W-9: 

Let's examine W-4 first. The title of the form identifies it as an "allowance" certificate. Its only purpose is as a permission slip to ALLOW the non-governmental employer to withhold, (take) some money from the employee's compensation on behalf of government. If you think that ALLOWANCE implies a voluntary-act, you are correct! If the form is voluntary for those outside governmental employment, then what of its content including the spot for a number? We repeat: The submission of a W-4 form or any other alternative AND ITS CONTENTS is considered a voluntary act!

Common sense will dictate that one cannot make demands on behalf of government for:

(1) a form signed under oath, with:

(2) a severe penalty of perjury jurat for non truth when:

(3) someone is simply exchanging labor for compensation and when:

(4) the person demanding is not an authorized withholding agent of government.

Hint: Were you given a badge or written delegation of authority?

BEWARE: The IRS has consistently confused these two definitions especially in their publications and forms. Unfortunately-- as employers on our distribution list have identified--the IRS does not come to the aid of employers relying on IRS publications; the IRS is under the Executive Branch of government and that branch does NOT make law.

Thus, non-governmental employers make a BIG mistake if they automatically convert or assume one number for the other without the expressed permission of the employee. It is better to err on the side of safety and to simply refuse to "do the work of government”: In a government-declared "system of voluntary compliance by the making of a return", the non-governmental employer is without authority to create a "taxpayer": that responsibility is left to another. Our recommendation is that you as an employer should NOT attempt to "create taxpayers" from non-governmental employees.

REMEMBER: NON-GOVERNMENTAL EMPLOYERS CAN ONLY REQUEST AND NOT DEMAND!

Remember that the SSN is not "owned" by the employee and further your "need" is only to satisfy his benefit if he chooses to participate in government Social Security insurance and the government withholding program. Thus, if an employee refuses to include an SSN on any government form, that right is his own. These forms are creations of government and their existence and content cannot be made mandatory outside those in government employment.

Further, you need not inquire of his reasons. His reasons might range from religious "mark" aspects to simply never applying for an SSN or to not wanting to be forced to make an oath under penalty. And you as an employer have NOTHING to fear from not including an SSN on any government form you submit to government.

The fine for EACH employee is $50 and this can be waived by simply including this statement on the "transmittal document" you send with Form W-2 and W-3: "I requested an SSN [or Form W4]. This non-federal employee did not provide the number [or Form W4]. To my knowledge he is not a federal employee or government "individual" nor does he engage in federal (26 USC) "trade or business".

No law compels a work eligible man or woman to submit a form W-4 or W-9 (or their equivalent), nor disclose an SSN as a condition of being hired or keeping one's job.

With the exception of an order from a court of competent jurisdiction issued by a duly qualified judge, no amounts can be lawfully taken from one's pay (for taxes, fees or other charges) without the worker's explicit, knowing, voluntary, written consent.

Section 7 of Public Law 93-579 provides that:

(a)(1) It shall be unlawful for any Federal, State or local government agency to deny any individual any right, benefit, or privilege provided by law because of such individual’s refusal to disclose Social Security account number.

There is no law requiring you to obtain or use the Social Security Number. The Social Security System is a voluntary System. The Social Security Act does not require a person to have an SSN to live and work in the United States of America, nor does it require an SSN simply for the purpose of having one.

If there was a law for the SSN, why does a major food chain, Taco Bell, have "optional" printed by the SSN on their applications?

The IRS only requires the employer/payer to request the SSN. If the employee/payee refuses to give or doesn’t have an SSN, the employer sends an affidavit to the IRS stating that they requested the SSN and the employee refused, (Indemnification Letter). The penalties will not be assessed against the employer.

See also:

Nowlin vs. D.M.V. 53 Cal. App. 4th 1529 Apr. 2, 1997

For video, see - http://constitutionclub.ning.com/

[Wayne Bachmann]

Do you know the difference between the Post Office and the Postal Service? If you don't have a Zip Code, the IRS is not allowed (by their own rules, not that they will obey their own rules) to audit you. I have read it, but I don't recall exactly which location. If you want to use the Zip, you can do it by the use of the Escobedo Rule. Make sure you spell the state out, and not use the 2 letter abbreviation. Example

PO Box whatever

Your town, Nevada  [89101]

Now, if you will write Zip Code exempt, in place of the Zip, you can still mail letters for 3 cents. That puts it in the jurisdiction of the Republic U. S. Post Office, not the corporate US Postal Service. This is just for personal letters. You cannot do this to pay bills, as then you are engaging the corporations of the country, which requires you to use the corporate Postal Service.

[Morton Thomson Jr.]

I believe Simon,

that you will find we are all a little frustrated and are also burning the candle at both ends. I feel like I never get a break. I'm sure most of us here are fighting the good fight and would like it if we didn't have to. But if we don't who will? Besides, up until recently, I felt like I was the only one on the planet who knew about this stuff. Like the proverbial cat on a limb - hang in there baby.

[Simon Leland]

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
-- Edmund Burke

 "The only saving grace [for America] is that even the trajectory of a bullet can be changed by the wind.”

--Thomas Sowell (Dismantling America p. 52)

“Apathy is the greatest Tyrant of all”

--Simon 7/4/2013

[Wayne Bachmann]

Simon,

Jimmy Carter just got done talking about the sex trafficking issues I was talking about a while ago. It was on PBS TV. He said it is now a major issue, and primarily focused on other countries, then explained why. In a lot of other countries, mentioning China in particular, parents have been killing off their girls, so now there is a major shortage of girls for their boys to marry. There are other issues involved, and did focus on issues here in this country also.

[Simon Leland]

I'm not sure I understand your point.... your saying if you have a birth certificate you can get stolen in the sex trade??? But if you don't have a birth certificate in the US you don't exist legally and that would make it infinitely easier to steal someone in the US.

I'm confused??

Simon

[Wayne Bachmann]

Simon,

That is pretty much it! If you used a marriage license with your wife, you are under contract with the government being the DOMINANT 3rd party in your marriage, and any kids you have, according to them, belong to the state.

When you have a kid, if you get a Birth Cert., or even a perverted Cert. of live Birth that has a trust account #, That Birth Cert. is a warehouse receipt, and the trust account # is proof of it.

When Hitler was in power, he was having kids taken and indoctrinated, eliminating family ties and religion, to be wards of the state. The game plan was eliminate God and family. That is precisely what is going on now. Sex trafficking and removing family and God.

If you allow the courts to do so, they will own your kids and they will regret it. It is the Marriage License and Birth Certificate that enables that conduct to happen, and who knows where she may get sent if government decides they want her in some other place or country.

[Wayne Bachmann]

Simon,

I am sorry. I misread your response. If she is not "registered", she would stand a better chance of flying under the radar. If you register her, she will come up on a computer. If you don't register her, and home school her, teach her to reserve her rights and not sign government contracts, I personally think she will be safer, but then again, I personally don't believe the corporation will still be around in 5 years. After they are gone, you won't have any worries about it.

[Wayne Bachmann]

I hope this will make it easier to understand. It is all about contracts and commercial law. If you used a Marriage license, you are bound by a contract that allows the government to be the dominant 3rd party in your marriage. The catch here is that it was done to you, without full disclosure, therefore it was done through fraud. You can use that as an excuse to get a divorce and get government out of your bedroom.

The Birth Cert. is a warehouse receipt for the "Birthing of your new vessel", and it will have a Birthing number attached to it, if you allow it. This is all about "Maritime Law". Do you understand what is going on in a courtroom with the Gold Fringe Flag, the Judge, the Bar in front of the Judge, and the gate? It is all about Maritime Law, and the fact that any captain of any ship reigns supreme on his vessel. The Judge is captain of his ship, which doesn't exist, but the railing or Bar represents the side of his ship, and you board his ship when you go through the gate. The Gold Fringe Flag is not the flag of the country, but the corporation, operating under Maritime Law. It was fraudulently adopted as the military flag during the Civil War, so they could have their little "ship's captains" operate outside the confines of the Constitution. That has since been adopted into our court systems. Is this becoming clearer? I hope it is clearing the situation up, so you can see through the massive amounts of fraud that has been perpetrated upon the American People.

[Wayne Bachmann]

Thank you for exposing how new parents can get themselves out of the forced Birth Cert.

[Morton Thomson Jr.]

Here's a thought I had for you too Simon. Make SURE you DO NOT let them or anyone else VACCINATE your child. Natural antibodies are in Mother's milk. I'm no expert, but Dr. James Winer is. Ask him about human fetal tissue being used in the making of vaccines and the massive increase in cases of Autism lately.

BTW, you don't need their stupid paper anyway. Make your own, have it notarized. What does that certificate say on it anyway? Certificate of live Birth? If it does then its the wrong form anyway. DO NOT let them push you around. Sue the crap out of them for false imprisonment, (sequestering), of documentation, or something similar. If they're going to hassle you, hassle them right back and add punitive damages to your claim for time spent fighting them. You are the future Simon. Do not let them tell you what or WHO you and your family will be. Good luck. Keep us posted.

[Wayne Bachmann]

And to Morton's comment I will add that I have recently been informed they may offer a Birth Cert. or Cert. of live Birth, your choice. BE CAREFUL! My own Birth Cert (issued in 1951) is actually a Cert. of Live Birth. The piece of paper was donated by Pet Milk Company. It does not have a tie to the corporation, and that is the important issue at hand. I personally would be extremely cautious about ANYTHING they offer, as it may be tied to the corporation, and have a trust account number to it. That is the important thing to watch out for, regardless what they call it. I would refuse anything they try to shove down your throat, and make your own up. That is the way it was always done prior to the Civil War.

[Simon Leland]

yea, for sure. I've been doing medical research for 20 years and mostly on viruses and more recently child vaccines.  No vaccines for my baby.  The autism and neurotoxins are just the tip of the iceberg.  Sorry I can't contribute more here now, I'm at work and need to get my job done.... I rarely get to type a complete thought in my responses. Anyhow, so much misinformation out there.  I was asked recently to be on a local AM radio talk show discussing vaccines but just didn't have the time... I hope the public interest stays high on this topic and I can do it at later date.

Simon