SSN Not Required

[Morton Thomson Jr.]

"Rare is the case that an employer actually needs an SSN. Indeed the Social Security Administration admits the numbers are actually their property and further that “no one needs an SSN to work in the United States.”

This latter fact isn't widely known, but NOT knowing and demanding an SSN where no authority to demand exists could get the employee demanding same, and his employer, involved in a civil action. Our recommendation is frankly to not push the SSN issue with employees. If an employee provides an SSN even on taxation forms it should only be done voluntarily and with NO adverse actions taken in case he refuses.

Form I-9: To our knowledge the only spot that asks for an actual SSN (and not an implied TIN) is on form I-9. However nothing in the law actually states the employee must provide the number. Because primarily government forms are intended for government employees, the majority of "spots for information" are considered voluntary when used by the general population NOT engaged in federal employment.

A twist: Indeed, the restrictions of public law regarding I-9 disclosures can actually RESTRICT the employer from using that number on ANY other form. In other words, do not assume you have the employee's permission to use that number on any other form or in any other way simply be virtue of its disclosure on Form I-9. You could possibly be in violation of the laws behind Form I-9!

Form W-4, Form W-2, Form W-3 and Form W-9: 

Let's examine W-4 first. The title of the form identifies it as an "allowance" certificate. Its only purpose is as a permission slip to ALLOW the non-governmental employer to withhold, (take) some money from the employee's compensation on behalf of government. If you think that ALLOWANCE implies a voluntary-act, you are correct! If the form is voluntary for those outside governmental employment, then what of its content including the spot for a number? We repeat: The submission of a W-4 form or any other alternative AND ITS CONTENTS is considered a voluntary act!

Common sense will dictate that one cannot make demands on behalf of government for:

(1) a form signed under oath, with:

(2) a severe penalty of perjury jurat for non truth when:

(3) someone is simply exchanging labor for compensation and when:

(4) the person demanding is not an authorized withholding agent of government.

Hint: Were you given a badge or written delegation of authority?

BEWARE: The IRS has consistently confused these two definitions especially in their publications and forms. Unfortunately-- as employers on our distribution list have identified--the IRS does not come to the aid of employers relying on IRS publications; the IRS is under the Executive Branch of government and that branch does NOT make law.

Thus, non-governmental employers make a BIG mistake if they automatically convert or assume one number for the other without the expressed permission of the employee. It is better to err on the side of safety and to simply refuse to "do the work of government”: In a government-declared "system of voluntary compliance by the making of a return", the non-governmental employer is without authority to create a "taxpayer": that responsibility is left to another. Our recommendation is that you as an employer should NOT attempt to "create taxpayers" from non-governmental employees.

REMEMBER: NON-GOVERNMENTAL EMPLOYERS CAN ONLY REQUEST AND NOT DEMAND!

Remember that the SSN is not "owned" by the employee and further your "need" is only to satisfy his benefit if he chooses to participate in government Social Security insurance and the government withholding program. Thus, if an employee refuses to include an SSN on any government form, that right is his own. These forms are creations of government and their existence and content cannot be made mandatory outside those in government employment.

Further, you need not inquire of his reasons. His reasons might range from religious "mark" aspects to simply never applying for an SSN or to not wanting to be forced to make an oath under penalty. And you as an employer have NOTHING to fear from not including an SSN on any government form you submit to government.

The fine for EACH employee is $50 and this can be waived by simply including this statement on the "transmittal document" you send with Form W-2 and W-3: "I requested an SSN [or Form W4]. This non-federal employee did not provide the number [or Form W4]. To my knowledge he is not a federal employee or government "individual" nor does he engage in federal (26 USC) "trade or business".

No law compels a work eligible man or woman to submit a form W-4 or W-9 (or their equivalent), nor disclose an SSN as a condition of being hired or keeping one's job.

With the exception of an order from a court of competent jurisdiction issued by a duly qualified judge, no amounts can be lawfully taken from one's pay (for taxes, fees or other charges) without the worker's explicit, knowing, voluntary, written consent.

Section 7 of Public Law 93-579 provides that:

(a)(1) It shall be unlawful for any Federal, State or local government agency to deny any individual any right, benefit, or privilege provided by law because of such individual’s refusal to disclose Social Security account number.

There is no law requiring you to obtain or use the Social Security Number. The Social Security System is a voluntary System. The Social Security Act does not require a person to have an SSN to live and work in the United States of America, nor does it require an SSN simply for the purpose of having one.

If there was a law for the SSN, why does a major food chain, Taco Bell, have "optional" printed by the SSN on their applications?

The IRS only requires the employer/payer to request the SSN. If the employee/payee refuses to give or doesn’t have an SSN, the employer sends an affidavit to the IRS stating that they requested the SSN and the employee refused, (Indemnification Letter). The penalties will not be assessed against the employer.

See also:

Nowlin vs. D.M.V. 53 Cal. App. 4th 1529 Apr. 2, 1997

For video, see - http://constitutionclub.ning.com/

[Morton Thomson Jr.]

You must file default notices to all who refuse to cooperate within 10 days (usually referenced in your original notice). You shouldn't give them any more time than that to respond to your original letter, etc., but a notice of default is ALWAYS the next step and yes you must file on everyone involved. Good luck and you are always helping me. Thank you.

[Osceola Renegade]

Rosanna;

Items 7 and 12 of your Affidavit trigger that the Judge is possibly hidden in he SCAM.  This sounds almost like the Randy Due case where he helped an elderly Farmer and his Wife in Nebraska.  The County Sheriff was also involved in the SCAM in that situation.

My wife is Executor of her deceased brother's estate at present.  The Court has been totally non-responsive.  Without Being appointed by the Court, she has transferred his Motorcycle and Car to her name, and the money is in an account not accessible by the court.  His home was given up to the REVERSE Mortgage Company with a "You got screwed" memo.  However, the Law Firm representing the Reverse Mortgage Holder has done everything possible to threaten 18 nieces and nephews scattered around the US to take ownership.  The house is rotten, wet, mildewed, black mold, and totally not habitable.  We ignore the judge and court clerks, and file motions defining the WALK AWAY process of Law, and rebutting the threats of some stupid lawyer.  Hostile environment at this point.

Have you gotten a certified copy of the accountability and expenditures required to be filed in the Probate Court.  or, did the JUDGE skip the probate ritual.

[joseph cronin jr.]

still no answer ; have we found our judas ?

[Aaron Bolinger]

If anyone wants mine ...   Sorta like our Constitution.  Iraq needs a new one, they can have ours.  It worked good for a while, but we haven't used it in probably 100 years (Jay Leno) ~wink~

That "4 digit" thing is dangerous, by the way.  If you know where a person grew up, part of that number is a country/state code (yes, every nation has it -- in Canada it is called the Social Insurance Number (SIN -- imagine that!)).  Easy to guess where it was issued, if you know the codes involved.  Best bet is to GET RID OF IT entirely, work as an entrepreneur, use daily pay (Deut. 24:14-15) as the payment method, in honest money (Hag.2:8), etc.

"Social" Security - "socialism"  -- same root.  Same program.  I'm not a socialist, so I don't their  global serf number. 

To prove this is NOT some uniquely Rooseveltian/American thing, visit this web site:  http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/progdesc/ssptw/index.html (170+ participating nations).  See also: http://www.ssa.gov/international/links.html

Yep -- global, world-beast-government tracking number!  Actually, it was Churchill who "insisted" that every nation coming into their new World Government use it.  Now administered globally by the United Nations.  Mexicans have SSN's -- they just want ones with AMERICAN coding, so the Mex. govt. doesn't know which of THEIR serfs have left the Mexican plantation.

Big-ole mess folks.  Global tracking.  If this isn't the prophesied "mark of the beast," it has every characteristic needed.  Overcomership -- that's the name of the game.

Aaron

[Rosanna Miller]

Ut Oh does this mean we are in trouble??? I don't see any link and I can't find where you sent it before... Sorry...

[Wayne Bachmann]

who are you talking to? what is it about?

[Morton Thomson Jr.]

Sorry Rosanna, I didn't mean to post that comment. I sent the pdf by replying in my email. Perhaps you didn't get what I sent so please everyone just do a search for The Great IRS Hoax by Chris Hansen. You WILL find it and it will be the most recent update available too. It is too large to include here. Good luck to all.

[Simon Leland]

Morton,

My daughter is now 18 days old and still no SSN... and no plans to get one.  Though all the government workers are telling us we HAVE TO GET ONE, it is clearly stated on the SS website that it is not mandatory.  There are child labor laws in this country, my daughter is not ready to join the work force and pay into SS, why would she need a SSN now?? They try to hang the tax deduction over your head and say you can't claim her as a deduction without a SSN.... all a bunch of BS.  There is one good reason for us to all have a SSN; and that will ensure our slavery!

"With Liberty and Justice for All"

Simon

[Wayne Bachmann]

Congratulations! another Freeman!!

[Morton Thomson Jr.]

Hear, hear, Simon.

Attaboy; don't you let them tell you anything. You know better and you have help if you need it. One question though, how did you get her outta the Hospital without the bureaucrats there going ballistic and filling in that SSN box for you? They will often try that, so I'm curious.

[Simon Leland]

Well before going into the hospital I was seriously considering bring a sidearm... with better judgement in place, I brought a stack of legal documents.  It was not pretty and they had security guards posted... but in the end it worked.  If you think the NSA is bad, In the state of CA (and probably others) they "state mandated" collect DNA samples for every baby.  Yes, I refused and hours later there became an opt out available.  you bet, I chose to opt out.  I forced them to provide the statutes that compel me to puncture my daughter and provide her flesh to the state.

It's a hard time to fight, after 43 hours in labor with my wife I had little fight left in me. They get you when you are the most vulnerable.  But I knew to expect this fight and I was not going to lose this one.  

Simon

[Wayne Bachmann]

Congratulations! I love your spirit!