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SSN Not Required
"Rare is the case that an employer actually needs an SSN. Indeed the Social Security Administration admits the numbers are actually their property and further that “no one needs an SSN to work in the United States.”
This latter fact isn't widely known, but NOT knowing and demanding an SSN where no authority to demand exists could get the employee demanding same, and his employer, involved in a civil action. Our recommendation is frankly to not push the SSN issue with employees. If an employee provides an SSN even on taxation forms it should only be done voluntarily and with NO adverse actions taken in case he refuses.
Form I-9: To our knowledge the only spot that asks for an actual SSN (and not an implied TIN) is on form I-9. However nothing in the law actually states the employee must provide the number. Because primarily government forms are intended for government employees, the majority of "spots for information" are considered voluntary when used by the general population NOT engaged in federal employment.
A twist: Indeed, the restrictions of public law regarding I-9 disclosures can actually RESTRICT the employer from using that number on ANY other form. In other words, do not assume you have the employee's permission to use that number on any other form or in any other way simply be virtue of its disclosure on Form I-9. You could possibly be in violation of the laws behind Form I-9!
Form W-4, Form W-2, Form W-3 and Form W-9:
Let's examine W-4 first. The title of the form identifies it as an "allowance" certificate. Its only purpose is as a permission slip to ALLOW the non-governmental employer to withhold, (take) some money from the employee's compensation on behalf of government. If you think that ALLOWANCE implies a voluntary-act, you are correct! If the form is voluntary for those outside governmental employment, then what of its content including the spot for a number? We repeat: The submission of a W-4 form or any other alternative AND ITS CONTENTS is considered a voluntary act!
Common sense will dictate that one cannot make demands on behalf of government for:
(1) a form signed under oath, with:
(2) a severe penalty of perjury jurat for non truth when:
(3) someone is simply exchanging labor for compensation and when:
(4) the person demanding is not an authorized withholding agent of government.
Hint: Were you given a badge or written delegation of authority?
BEWARE: The IRS has consistently confused these two definitions especially in their publications and forms. Unfortunately-- as employers on our distribution list have identified--the IRS does not come to the aid of employers relying on IRS publications; the IRS is under the Executive Branch of government and that branch does NOT make law.
Thus, non-governmental employers make a BIG mistake if they automatically convert or assume one number for the other without the expressed permission of the employee. It is better to err on the side of safety and to simply refuse to "do the work of government”: In a government-declared "system of voluntary compliance by the making of a return", the non-governmental employer is without authority to create a "taxpayer": that responsibility is left to another. Our recommendation is that you as an employer should NOT attempt to "create taxpayers" from non-governmental employees.
REMEMBER: NON-GOVERNMENTAL EMPLOYERS CAN ONLY REQUEST AND NOT DEMAND!
Remember that the SSN is not "owned" by the employee and further your "need" is only to satisfy his benefit if he chooses to participate in government Social Security insurance and the government withholding program. Thus, if an employee refuses to include an SSN on any government form, that right is his own. These forms are creations of government and their existence and content cannot be made mandatory outside those in government employment.
Further, you need not inquire of his reasons. His reasons might range from religious "mark" aspects to simply never applying for an SSN or to not wanting to be forced to make an oath under penalty. And you as an employer have NOTHING to fear from not including an SSN on any government form you submit to government.
The fine for EACH employee is $50 and this can be waived by simply including this statement on the "transmittal document" you send with Form W-2 and W-3: "I requested an SSN [or Form W4]. This non-federal employee did not provide the number [or Form W4]. To my knowledge he is not a federal employee or government "individual" nor does he engage in federal (26 USC) "trade or business".
No law compels a work eligible man or woman to submit a form W-4 or W-9 (or their equivalent), nor disclose an SSN as a condition of being hired or keeping one's job.
With the exception of an order from a court of competent jurisdiction issued by a duly qualified judge, no amounts can be lawfully taken from one's pay (for taxes, fees or other charges) without the worker's explicit, knowing, voluntary, written consent.
Section 7 of Public Law 93-579 provides that:
(a)(1) It shall be unlawful for any Federal, State or local government agency to deny any individual any right, benefit, or privilege provided by law because of such individual’s refusal to disclose Social Security account number.
There is no law requiring you to obtain or use the Social Security Number. The Social Security System is a voluntary System. The Social Security Act does not require a person to have an SSN to live and work in the United States of America, nor does it require an SSN simply for the purpose of having one.
If there was a law for the SSN, why does a major food chain, Taco Bell, have "optional" printed by the SSN on their applications?
The IRS only requires the employer/payer to request the SSN. If the employee/payee refuses to give or doesn’t have an SSN, the employer sends an affidavit to the IRS stating that they requested the SSN and the employee refused, (Indemnification Letter). The penalties will not be assessed against the employer.
See also:
Nowlin vs. D.M.V. 53 Cal. App. 4th 1529 Apr. 2, 1997
For video, see - http://constitutionclub.ning.com/
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Rosanna Miller on
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Morton,
I went on a search. To much out there and more than I bargained for. So here is some but I think this video I have marked is really really good... Perhaps you have already seen it. Appears the DOJ and IRS are not happy with Chris... This should keep us busy for weeks. I am already trying to handle the UBC..
The Great IRS Hoax Chris Hansencheck out this video in here on IRS ---- WOWopen Larken Rose Taxableincome .net
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Hi Aaron. I knew I recognized that name. I am friends with your Mich. and Pa. assoc. Thanks for the removal of SSN when they are not needed. I also am associated with IOTC and therefore Pastor Whitley. I love listening to my American view recordings. Like I do the Proclaim Liberty group Bible studies on here.
I know this guy from a local group that only carries his Bible and can direct you to any place in the Bible that foretold what, why and how everything is happening in this day and age. I want to be that knowledgeable too. It is amazing to listen to him. I would like to find preaching from the pulpit like this.
I wish we could get everyone in the country educated really really fast...... But you know there is a wide and narrow gate for a reason..
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Rosanna and others,
If you will go to ldsavow.org and rogerkyoung.net you can get a book called "AS A THIEF IN THE NIGHT". What you are talking about is easily explained. Hitler and Germany are the beast that was wounded almost to death, then had a miraculous recovery within 20 years to fight the next battle, and that recovery was funded by the Rothschilds. All of the beast's heads and everything is very well explained, and it all fits to a "T". Roger K. Young is the individual who started GRI (Global Research Initiative) which is where Glenn Beck gets most of his info. Roger also has the plans and reveals them of what our enemies are up to. The time frame keeps changing as the Lord puts stumbling blocks before our enemies (to give us more time to prepare), but time is running out. The books he has his latest updates in are very informative. I just read parts of them a couple days ago. Serious business, and we don't have much time left. A couple days ago, a power plant in Wyoming just put it's employees on "High Alert".
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Thanks Wayne I peaked at the links and they do look great. I would love to read them now but I am trying to get the UBC down. There is entirely too much going on and nobody can keep up with this and whatever I do first seems i picked the wrong thing first. My life is not my own.
And all I want is my parents back and safe.....
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Be prepared for the inevitable. Do a search on Will Gaston, and his wife (who has since been assassinated after they won their case) I know him, Roger Weidner, and Milt Mitchek. They are all friends of mine. Will's Daughter was kidnapped, and although they eventually won the case, and were awarded a settlement, his daughter was never returned, nor did they collect on the settlement. They were using case law. An atty did research and the best that he could find is that she is being held in an insane asylum somewhere. Sex trafficking and other issues are involved.
The state makes money from the FEDs on every person they have incarcerated in hospitals, thus becoming a source of revenue for the state. That is part of the problem and that is part of the reason you need to use the UBC to go after their bonds. Once they have been proven to be dishonorable, the bonding companies won't touch them, and they will be unemployed.
If nothing else, you will be a witness against them, to testify against them on judgment day. That looks like what will happen to me on a couple cases I am involved in. I am not going to have the time to deal with all of them before the stuff hits the fan. It is more important to have my own personal life in order to be prepared, and we don't have much time left. When we die, we will have to experience all the pain we have caused others, and they will be in a world of hurt. The reference for that in a little white book written by Sarah Minet, called “THERE IS NO DEATH.” It is available on those sites I just gave you.
She committed suicide and tells what she learned while she was on the other side before the paramedics brought her back. She was shown 9/11 about 2 years before it happened, and has been shown lots of other upcoming events in the near future. I have met her personally as well. She has done a major life turn-around since that time, and has dedicated her life to helping others understand what is going on, and why. The book is inexpensive, especially when you consider the value of the information gained from it.
I am not saying all of this to discourage you, just to help you be prepared for whatever happens. There is no death, and the criminals will have to experience all of the pain they are causing, and you will be a witness against them. Use the UBCs and see if you have better success. We only have about 3 months before the major banking crash begins, as current information is indicating.
If nothing else, you will be a witness against them, to testify against them on judgement day. That looks like what will happen to me on a couple cases I am involved in. I am not going to have the time to deal with all of them before the stuff hits the fan. It is more important to have my own personal life in order to be prepared, and we don't have much time left. When we die, we will have to experience all the pain we have caused others, and they will be in a world of hurt. The reference for that in in a little white book written by Sarah Minet, called THERE IS NO DEATH. It is available on those sites I just gave you. She committed suicide and tells what she learned while she was on the other side before the paramedics brought her back. She was shown Sept. 11 about 2 years before it happened, and has been shown lots of other upcoming events in the near future. I have met her personally as well. She has done a major life turn-around since that time, and has dedicated her life to helping others understand what is going on, and why. The book is inexpensive, especially when you consider the value of the information gained from it.
I am not saying all of this to discourage you, just to help you be prepared for whatever happens. There is no death, and the criminals will have to experience all of the pain they are causing, and you will be a witness against them. Use the UBCs and see if you have better success. We only have about 3 months before the major banking crash begins, as current information is indicating.
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actually I made a typo. Hitler is not the beast, but tied to Germany because of his position. He is just one of many Anti-Christs, not to be confused with the main one.
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HAARP, that is causing the horrific devastations, around the world is owned by Germany I read this a.m. In the Great Controversy, one can find the Bible and the French Revolution..America is right where they were back then, total chaos, no morals, values or ethics; replacing at Notre Dame the Diety with a dancing female ..if one would read that book, the Bible would be filled in and make more sense to all of you; I know it has helped me as has the United States and Britain in Prophecy. I am now understanding Isaiah, Zephaniah, etc. Never understood them as I do now and what an interesting read as well as coming to know the Lord better.'
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Great post! Now, I know a little about Wayne! Thanks. I have not done the research yet but go to this site and see what you think: it may shock you, so, if any of you research and find out anything at all, I would like to be in on it! Petrus-Romanus.Mail@gmail.com.
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Thanks for the compliment, but what is it referring to?
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There was a comment from someone that evidently knew of you and your work before, not only here but Biblically; it was a most positive post and to this old lady, if something good is said about someone, that needs to be reverberated.
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Well Thank you, Young Lady! Age is all in the head, until you decide to use your body, from my personal experience!
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You are too kind! I only look about 60 and think young, I still enjoy the older cartoons which are seldom seen; I think young and often act that way in private with friends. I am a Virgo so many say I am weird, including myself.!
I have to agree on the body part, the old knees sometimes embarrass me when I have to find a way to get up from the floor!
Thanks for being here!
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