The Fair Tax

[Morton Thomson Jr.]

The Fair Tax

And what’s wrong with it!

Here are the main problems I have with the proposed Fair Tax.

1. Those in favor of passing this legislation claim that it first requires that we repeal the 16^th Amendment. This is a false notion fueled by ignorance of the law. The Supreme Court said in Stanton Vs. Baltic Mining Co., 240 US 112 (1916), that the 16^th Amendment does not change Article I, section 8 of the Constitution, and “confers no new power of taxation.” Therefore repealing the amendment will change nothing and will not, in and of itself, eliminate the IRS. Therefore, even if one could successfully repeal the 16^th Amendment, the proposal is doomed from the onset. Other Supreme Court case law as in Brushaber Vs. Union Pacific Railroad Co., 240 US 1 (1916),  is being used as the legal backdrop for the authority to continue the fraud known as the Income Tax, so repealing the 16^th Amendment will not be enough.
2. The proposed sales tax claims to be “revenue neutral”. This means that it will do nothing to change the amount of money going into the coffers of the federal government. This does absolutely nothing to make the feds more fiscally responsible, which is what they claim to be trying to do with the Fair Tax proposal.
3. Because this is a sales tax and is “revenue neutral”, it’s too easy for everyone to lose track of how and where they are taxed, thus allowing the government and the public at large to easily forget that there is a tax being levied in the first place, and;
4. This makes it too easy for the tax to be increased by fiat, any time they feel like it. And don’t tell me that it will have to be voted on, because when you rob Peter to pay Paul, you can always count on the support of Paul. In other words, those constituents who benefit from government giveaways will always vote in favor of increased taxes. Eliminating giveaway programs is first and foremost at the heart of the problem, not eliminating the IRS. And:
5. Wasteful spending by the fed will not change just because the money comes from a different place. Reform needs to be based in correcting the problems that we know exist now, not in changing the source of revenue.
6. In addition, there must be serious reform of the corrupt cycle known as lobbying. When a politician can be persuaded to vote in favor of passing a law for a particular corporation to receive money based on the amount of begging and influence peddling they engage in, this is a problem. The Fair Tax will not change this.
7. Also, the government is in the habit of ignoring the will of the people in the first place, so what will stop them from simply printing more fiat money any time they feel like it? The answer is NOTHING. And:
8. Last but not least is the fact that taxes, like the economy, trickle down to the bottom. When corporations are taxed, industry wide, they do not actually pay the taxes directly. They either move the operation to a tax free environment, thereby eliminating American jobs, or they simply increase the cost of the end product to cover the increased taxes and the CONSUMER pays a higher price at the end of the line. So poor people end up paying the increased taxes levied against the “evil rich and competition will not keep corporations from raising the price of their products, due to the fact that the regulation or tax that increases those costs for a product are levied against an entire industry all at once, in order to make it “fair”. Some perfect examples are cigarettes, alcohol, beef, milk, etc. You name it, the fed has found a way to tax or regulate it, INDUSTRY WIDE. They don’t just tax or regulate one company, they tax them ALL, and the CONSUMER PAYS THE BILL. The Fair Tax WILL NOT CHANGE THAT. That’s trickle down economics 101. If you need proof, check the latest tax returns filed by Goldman Sachs, AIG, etc. You’ll see that not only were they able to differ an income tax liability of TWO BILLION DOLLARS by shipping jobs over-seas, they actually qualified for a TAX CREDIT of over ONE BILLION DOLLARS MORE, on top of that! We must eliminate the IRS AND STOP THE PAYMENTS. Not change the way they get the wealth.

In conclusion,

It is safe to say that the Fair Tax will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to change what’s wrong with our federal government in terms of how they borrow and spend and print new FRN’s (Quantitative Easing), anytime the Fed says it’s the right thing to do. Not to mention the Fair Tax does nothing to address the fact that they routinely ignore requests now for freedom of information and Redress of Grievances in regard to taxes and other issues. The fed will not change their attitude until “We The People” force them to.

Stop the "voluntary compliance" with the misapplication of the current Internal Re-Venue Codes. This would immediately cripple the fed and wake them up. The Fair Tax WILL NOT! Instead, it will bury the issue of an overblown and corrupt government and put it on the back burner of the American conscience. People will continue to fund a corrupt, wasteful, SOCIALIST government. That’s why I don’t like the Fair Tax.

Comments?

[Wayne Bachmann]

Right on, Marty. They are both operating under George Soros, who is operating under the Rothschild directives.

[Steve Belttari]

     And here's a new one in just the last few years) "My attorney advised it." These people couldn't cite one single trigger event, but said that they were motivated by their attorney's advice to divest offshore and move offshore if possible. Now that's scary.

     This is just another piece of evidence that expatriates are just another form of parasite-for the most part.  One's motive for doing something is paramount and the whole idea that they could not even formulate their own reasons for abandoning ship, without being totally dependent on an attorney is indeed scary.

[John Gaver]

Actually, every expat has a wide variety of reasons why he or she left the USA. I was talking about the "trigger event" - the one single event or policy change that pushed them over the edge. In the last few years, I've had a number of expats tell me that the trigger event wasn't a particular concern, but rather, their attorney's advice.

What makes this particularly scary is that if the client moves offshore, there's very little chance that he will ever have use for a U.S. attorney again. So what you have, is an attorney advising a wealthy client to do something that will lose him that client forever. The only way I can imagine an attorney doing something like that is if he honestly believes that if the client stays, he will lose that client anyway, when the economy collapses, there's a violent revolution or there is some other political or economic cataclysm.

By the way, back around 2002 and 2003, the number two reason that I encountered for Americans expatriating was the Patriot Act. But most of the people for whom that was the trigger event are now settled into their new lives abroad and the recent flood of people renouncing their U.S. citizenship since Obama assumed office has dwarfed those who left in the early 2000's.

I don't quite understand why you think that someone who wants to keep what he has worked hard to acquire is a parasite for taking the last option available to him. I've talked with hundreds of expats over the years and only a very tiny handful have ever told me that they wanted to leave the USA and those people were the young adventurous types, who would likely return to the USA after they got the adventure out of their blood. But almost all of the expats whom I've met would be considered rich, by government standards, and to a man, every one I asked about leaving the USA told me that it was more like a last resort, rather than something that they looked forward to.

One formal expat, whom I met in London, told me that he couldn't imagine it feeling much worse than if his mother had told him, when he turned 18, to get out of the house and never come back. It's not something that they do on a whim. It's something that they do in self-defense.

The top 10% of taxpayers pay 70% of all income tax and pay most of all other taxes, as well. Now, they're being told, that what they're paying isn't enough. People are losing property that has been in their family for a hundred and fifty years, because an envirowacko said he saw a puddle on the land, after a heavy rain and got it declared a "wetland". Frivolous lawsuits are getting worse by the day. The list goes on and on. I personally, can't blame anyone who leaves, especially if he has money. These people have more than paid their dues to the government behemoth and now they're told, that they have to pay even more, to benefit a bunch of deadbeats.

But what's worse, is that half of Americans hate them for having money. On the other hand, the other half don't have time to waste on name-calling, because they're packing their bags and trying to get out before the U.S. government closes the borders, as did NAZI Germany.

[Steve Belttari]

     John,

     Unless someone is an expatriate in North Korea, they are benefiting from the American Corporate Empire's military protection and the political-economic stability it provides.  So one can renounce their American citizenship to avoid paying taxes or maybe just because they hate the IRS, give up some rights and privileges, but still be benefiting from the civilization that taxes have provided.  Imperfectly of course and there is always a better way.  I think it is better for them to get the right information in their minds and do the right things to improve America.  Think about it, one more expatriate is one less vote for the Fair Tax. 

[Wayne Bachmann]

One more expatriate is one less person to support the corporation. One less person to support the corporation is one step closer to the collapse of the corporation. One step closer to the collapse of the corporation is one step closer to the restoration of the Republic being in control of the country. One step closer to the Republic being in control of the country is one step closer to the People being in control of the country. One step closer to the People being in control of the country is one step closer to a society where our rights are protected, not violated.

[John Gaver]

Steve, your argument about American protection used to be valid, but it's now seriously out of date. The USA can't even subdue a tiny country like Afghanistan or secure our own borders. Our best generals and admirals have all either resigned or been relieved. But fortunately, the people of most of the rest of the world have come to realize that they are the ones who actually hold the power.

Panama just had their elections last month and the primary reason given for voting for the incoming president was that, although the outgoing president was well liked, the voters wanted a candidate was not too closely tied to the outgoing president, so they were voting against the candidate who was endorsed by the outgoing president. They don't need a term limits law. They understand their power and responsibility and they impose their own term limits at the polls.

You are spot on target about most new expats being one less vote for the FairTax. That's another subject that I've questioned expats about. Most have told me that they supported the concept of the FairTax, before leaving and many would consider returning, if the FairTax were to become law. But the longer they've been offshore, the less likely they are to want to return. Seems that the longer they remain offshore, the more they adapt to their new life abroad. They've already had to leave friends behind once. They don't want to do it again.

Of course, among those who would consider returning, they tell me that other laws would have to be changed, as well, so as to make it easier to return. You see, if a person was considered a "covered expatriate" (the government's term for "rich") at the time of expatriation, then according to the 1996 Illegal Immigration Reform and
Immigrant Responsibility Act
(8 USC 1182(a)(10)(E)), that person may be permanently denied re-entry into the USA for any reason. The Wall St. Journal called that law the, "…and don't come back law."

It's not bad enough that we're driving out the people who pay the vast majority of the taxes and who create almost all of the jobs. Congress has even gone so far as to create a law that would prevent these producers from returning, even if we passed the FairTax, passed serious tort reform, got the EPA under control and fixed the many other issues that drove them offshore. If those job creators were to be welcomed back, we would have to reverse that law, as well.

But interestingly, the FairTax would be all that we would need to encourage wealthy foreigners, who were never U.S. citizens, to invest their money in the USA. So what it boils down to is that our laws are telling wealthy former U.S. citizens, who have a personal tie to this nation, that their money isn't welcome here, but the money of wealthy Arabs and Chinese, who want to overthrow this nation is welcome. Go figure…

[John Gaver]

Wayne, the flaw in your logic is that when an expat leaves, it's not just one less person to support the corporation or one step closer to the collapse of the corporation, because the corporation won't collapse. They'll just move the entire company offshore.

The Wall St. Journal reported that in the decade between 2001 and 2010 (inclusive), major U.S. corporations cut U.S. jobs by 2.9 million and created 2.4 million jobs offshore. Since Obama took office, offshoring of U.S. jobs has increased dramatically. The more of a company's jobs and infrastructure is offshore, the easier it becomes for that company to move their entire operation offshore. Regardless of where they are domiciled, the corporation will endure. If we continue to attack the corporations, more of them will just move offshore and those that don't may find themselves being bought up for pennies on the dollar, by foreign corporations and the new owners will them move them offshore.

There is a truism that states, "If you want more of a thing, reward that thing. If you want less of a thing, punish that thing." Our laws are punishing success and U.S. job creation. So it's no wonder that we lost 2.4 million jobs to offshoring in a single decade.

Of course, many of the individual expats who are leaving are stockholders in some of those corporations and they're exerting their influence on those corporations to do what they have to do, in order to remain economically viable. So not only are we losing that expat and the jobs that he actually controls, but we're losing his influence to keep corporate jobs in the USA as well.

Under the above conditions, it is far less likely that the people will regain control of the Republic any time soon. That's because people just tend not to worry too much about what form of government they have, when they're starving and without a job. In fact, those are the conditions that would make the USA ripe for the formation of a dictatorship (think the Bolshevik Revolution or Nazi Germany - in both cases, millions of people were starving and out of work and Stalin and Hitler promised largess from the government).

The very last thing that the USA needs, is to lose the very people who are the risk-takers, the innovators, and the job creators; not to mention, being by far the biggest taxpayers. Lose them and this nation will collapse. A hundred million hard workers are nothing, without leaders with the ability to both manage a company and who are willing to step up to the plate and take the risk of losing everything if the company fails. A lot of people have management capability. But they won't take the risk. Others are risk-takers, but can't balance their checkbook. Those who fit both categories are very rare and they're the ones we're losing.

When thinking about all those rich people leaving the USA, just consider this question. "When was the last time you were offered a job by a poor person?"

[Wayne Bachmann]

John,

I totally agree with you, and you have shed more light on the subject, that I had not thought about. 

However, my perspective comes from reading the Book of Mormon confirming attitudes I have had since I was young. Starve them out!

The Book of Mormon is a history book of the Native Americans from 600BC to 421 AD. They were a massive society and basically self destructed before Columbus ever came here. It happened about 400 AD, a little before.

They had a segment of society called the Gadianton Robbers, which would correlate to our Mafia. They also had "Kingmen" who wanted to destroy their "Republic" form of government. Those two elements finally became so big and powerful that they almost destroyed their society about 100 BC. The decent people all got together in one spot with 7 year's supply of food, guarded themselves, and starved the Gadianton robbers to death. The robbers only survived by leaching off the supplies of the good Indians. That is primarily what happened in 400 AD, except the whole of society got so rotten that there weren't any good ones to save the day.

Today, the modern day Gadianton Robbers and Kingmen are doing the same thing, primarily through taxation and unlawful regulations, trying to dominate and control us who just want to live peacefully and lawfully. If everybody would just refuse to bow down to them and give their strength to them, they would either work and contribute to society, or starve to death and die. If we would stop feeding the leaches of society, THEY WOULD GET IT FIGURED OUT!

It is coming to that point. The Indians broke up into tribes after the fall of their society, which is going to be happening here, in time. But there will be a lot of bloodshed and disease happening first. This society is so liberal and lethargic that they will not stand up for what is right (the majority of them anyway), so they will reap the consequences of it. The big problem as I see it is that those of us who are willing to stand up for what is right will have to pay the price right along with those who don't have what it takes.

Keep your eyes open for "Tent Cities" at some point in the future. It is coming. Sarah Minet talks about them.

If you have an eye to read, and I think you obviously do, you may want to get a copy of the book: THERE IS NO DEATH, by Sarah Minet. She died, and tells what she was shown while on the other side, before paramedics brought her back. She was shown Sept. 11, 2 years before it actually happened. She was shown a lot of other things that are going to be happening in this country, as well as other parts of the world. We are right on the verge of other things happening right now. I met her a few months ago, and she knows of more than what she put in her book.

You also may want to get a copy of the book: AS A THIEF IN THE NIGHT, by Roger K. Young. I met him last January and had a chat with him too. We are both in agreement that we are basically in the same position as the early Indians, that there are so many who are corrupt, but being quiet for the moment, that the only way we will ever get back on our feet again is to have the major house cleaning party that has been predicted by many.

Roger is the one who heads up GRI (Global Research Initiative) which is where Glenn Beck gets most of his info. and he has a 93-97 % success rate on what he finds out, then reveals about what the various governments are and will be doing.

There are other books also, and they can all be gotten at rogerkyoung.net, and ldsavow.com

[John Gaver]

Wayne, I fully understand where you're coming from. But the problem that most people, including most members of Congress, fail to notice is that communication and transportation have totally changed the world.

Having written a book on the subject of how our laws are driving out our biggest taxpayers and job creators, I have communicated with many people who don't realize just how easy it has become for someone with just a little more than average income to live comfortably offshore. For someone with big bucks, it's even easier.

The Internet, FedEx, DHL, cheap and dependable cell phones, satellite TV and more have made it possible for anyone with a modicum of money to live quite comfortably in any of about 40 very safe, politically stable and economically sound countries in the world.

In the past, the U.S. government was able to get away with levying what amounted to punitive levels of tax on the wealthy, because there was no other place on the planet to which the wealthy could flee. If you wanted to run a business and increase your holdings, this was it. There was no place else.

But that's no longer the case. A Nevis and St. Kitts passport will get you visa-free travel to just as many countries as will a U.S. passport. In fact, you can even travel to Cuba on that passport. Try that with a U.S. passport. Countries like Ireland and Panama have great programs specifically designed to encourage wealthy Americans to establish residence there. Of course, there are banking centers like Switzerland and Belize that offer plenty of financial services. UPS and other companies offer U.S. post office box services that automatically direct mail that arrives at that box to your offshore address. With the aid of an inexpensive VPN (Virtual Private Network) you can even watch U.S. television from most countries in the world.

The point is that the old paradigm it dead. The U.S. government can no longer punish the rich and expect them to just take it. If you keep beating a dog, then the first time you leave the gate open, he's going to run away. The only way to keep the wealthy here is to either pass laws that encourage them to stay or close the borders, as did Nazi Germany. But wait… closing the borders didn't work for Nazi Germany. Many wealthy Jews got out of Germany after Hitler closed the borders. Then consider how little control our government currently has over our borders. So closing the borders is not an option. The only choice is to make the U.S. more appealing than other nations.

[Rene Stover]

I think the problem with most people that hate the Rich people, if they do, (I don't know anyone that does not look up to them), is that they do not know who to hate.  It is not the Rich but the few Ultra-Rich that should be hated, because they aren't content to just work hard and keep what they have, they want to, and do, control everything, they are the actual blight on the world we live in, and they are Tribalistic.  These Ultra-Rich few don't pay taxes, but hide their wealth in foundations etc.  We, the middle class probably pay most of the taxes because of our numbers, compared to the Rich which are getting smaller in number.  When it comes right down to it, we are all in the same boat, and should all be against the Ultra-Rich few, because they manipulate the government to pass laws and policies that are against us.

[John Gaver]

Rene, your belief that the ultra-rich don't pay tax is way off base. According to published IRS data, in 2011 (the latest tax year data available), the top 1% of U.S. personal income tax payers earned 18.7% of all income earned in the USA and paid 35.06% of all federal personal income tax. Do the math. That's almost double their share, based on income.

However, since roughly half of Americans pay no federal personal income tax, that top 1% of taxpayers actually amounts to just the top 1/2% of all Americans. That's a pretty elite group.

The IRS reports that average tax rate for this elite group was 23.5% in 2011. By contrast, the average tax rate for those earning less than $167,728 in that year was 10.1%, for those earning less than $120,136 it was 9.14%, and for those earning less than $70,492, it was a mere 7.47%.

The most recent data for the top 400 highest income earners in the USA is a year older. But it shows that the average tax rate for this ultra elite group was 18.11%, so they paid only slightly less than the rest of the top 1% of income earners, who paid 23.5%. But the top 1% aren't crying about a couple of percentage point difference in taxes, between them and the top 400. They're too busy running their businesses and trying to comply with an incomprehensible U.S. tax code, to be concerned about something as minor as that.

No matter how you cut it, the rich and ultra-rich really do pay far more tax than the middle-class or upper-middle-class. In fact, since that misconception is so prevalent in politics and the media, I wrote a whole book about it, titled, "The Rich Don't Pay Tax! …Or Do They?" complete with the URLs to tons of source data. You can find a lot of that information spread around the book's blog. But if you're really interested in doing your own research, I suggest that you check out the book. It's available in print, Kindle, and Nook formats, from Amazon and other booksellers. Check out the source data cited throughout the book. Those sources are impeccable and the facts that are revealed in that data are undeniable.

The rich really do pay tax… and a whole lot more than the rest of us.

[Wayne Bachmann]

I fully understand where you are coming from, but you cannot eat computers or vehicles and expect to have a very long life expectancy. UN is stockpiling major amounts of food, with the expectancy of starving out the people until they are ready to sign papers and accept the chip, trading in their sovereign rights for govt. granted privileges. They are deliberately drying out the food belt in Cal, to cause a food shortage. That is what the chem-trails are about, part of the mission with them anyway. Cal is drying out, and they are pushing major cold fronts to the eastern states. Places like here in Utah are being alternated between extreme cold to warm, yoyoing back and forth. We have seen it here this last winter. It is all being done intentionally, preparing for a deliberately caused famine. This is the lever that is being created to force people to accept the chip, and give up their rights.

The trick is going to be on them though. The scriptures say that the ones who are digging the pit for us are the ones who are going to fill the pit! We need to be prepared for a famine, be it man made or natural. It is not that far distant.