The Fair Tax

[Morton Thomson Jr.]

The Fair Tax

And what’s wrong with it!

Here are the main problems I have with the proposed Fair Tax.

1. Those in favor of passing this legislation claim that it first requires that we repeal the 16^th Amendment. This is a false notion fueled by ignorance of the law. The Supreme Court said in Stanton Vs. Baltic Mining Co., 240 US 112 (1916), that the 16^th Amendment does not change Article I, section 8 of the Constitution, and “confers no new power of taxation.” Therefore repealing the amendment will change nothing and will not, in and of itself, eliminate the IRS. Therefore, even if one could successfully repeal the 16^th Amendment, the proposal is doomed from the onset. Other Supreme Court case law as in Brushaber Vs. Union Pacific Railroad Co., 240 US 1 (1916),  is being used as the legal backdrop for the authority to continue the fraud known as the Income Tax, so repealing the 16^th Amendment will not be enough.
2. The proposed sales tax claims to be “revenue neutral”. This means that it will do nothing to change the amount of money going into the coffers of the federal government. This does absolutely nothing to make the feds more fiscally responsible, which is what they claim to be trying to do with the Fair Tax proposal.
3. Because this is a sales tax and is “revenue neutral”, it’s too easy for everyone to lose track of how and where they are taxed, thus allowing the government and the public at large to easily forget that there is a tax being levied in the first place, and;
4. This makes it too easy for the tax to be increased by fiat, any time they feel like it. And don’t tell me that it will have to be voted on, because when you rob Peter to pay Paul, you can always count on the support of Paul. In other words, those constituents who benefit from government giveaways will always vote in favor of increased taxes. Eliminating giveaway programs is first and foremost at the heart of the problem, not eliminating the IRS. And:
5. Wasteful spending by the fed will not change just because the money comes from a different place. Reform needs to be based in correcting the problems that we know exist now, not in changing the source of revenue.
6. In addition, there must be serious reform of the corrupt cycle known as lobbying. When a politician can be persuaded to vote in favor of passing a law for a particular corporation to receive money based on the amount of begging and influence peddling they engage in, this is a problem. The Fair Tax will not change this.
7. Also, the government is in the habit of ignoring the will of the people in the first place, so what will stop them from simply printing more fiat money any time they feel like it? The answer is NOTHING. And:
8. Last but not least is the fact that taxes, like the economy, trickle down to the bottom. When corporations are taxed, industry wide, they do not actually pay the taxes directly. They either move the operation to a tax free environment, thereby eliminating American jobs, or they simply increase the cost of the end product to cover the increased taxes and the CONSUMER pays a higher price at the end of the line. So poor people end up paying the increased taxes levied against the “evil rich and competition will not keep corporations from raising the price of their products, due to the fact that the regulation or tax that increases those costs for a product are levied against an entire industry all at once, in order to make it “fair”. Some perfect examples are cigarettes, alcohol, beef, milk, etc. You name it, the fed has found a way to tax or regulate it, INDUSTRY WIDE. They don’t just tax or regulate one company, they tax them ALL, and the CONSUMER PAYS THE BILL. The Fair Tax WILL NOT CHANGE THAT. That’s trickle down economics 101. If you need proof, check the latest tax returns filed by Goldman Sachs, AIG, etc. You’ll see that not only were they able to differ an income tax liability of TWO BILLION DOLLARS by shipping jobs over-seas, they actually qualified for a TAX CREDIT of over ONE BILLION DOLLARS MORE, on top of that! We must eliminate the IRS AND STOP THE PAYMENTS. Not change the way they get the wealth.

In conclusion,

It is safe to say that the Fair Tax will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to change what’s wrong with our federal government in terms of how they borrow and spend and print new FRN’s (Quantitative Easing), anytime the Fed says it’s the right thing to do. Not to mention the Fair Tax does nothing to address the fact that they routinely ignore requests now for freedom of information and Redress of Grievances in regard to taxes and other issues. The fed will not change their attitude until “We The People” force them to.

Stop the "voluntary compliance" with the misapplication of the current Internal Re-Venue Codes. This would immediately cripple the fed and wake them up. The Fair Tax WILL NOT! Instead, it will bury the issue of an overblown and corrupt government and put it on the back burner of the American conscience. People will continue to fund a corrupt, wasteful, SOCIALIST government. That’s why I don’t like the Fair Tax.

Comments?

[Shavager]

WRONG, the United States Supreme Court has already answered this question--the CONSTITUTION TRUMPS ALL!  Landmark case, Reid v Covert, 354 US 1, the Supreme Court said: "NO AGREEMENT WITH A FOREIGN NATION can confer power on the Congress, OR ON ANY OTHER BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT, which is free from the RESTRAINTS of the Constitution."----The Supreme Court has regularly and uniformly recognized the SUPREMACY of the Constitution over a treaty.  The SCOTUS went on to say: "The United States IS ENTIRELY A CREATURE OF THE CONSTITUTION. It's power and authority HAVE NO OTHER SOURCE. It can ONLY act in accordance with ALL the LIMITATIONS imposed by the Constitution."

[Jim Robinett]

so when will the supreme court and the rest of government act in accordance with all the limitations imposed by the constitution?  So far they and the government have circumvented all of the written original constitution.  they do what ever they want it does not matter if it is within the boundaries of the Constitution.

[Robert Holtzclaw]

Amen.

[Morton Thomson Jr.]

Exactly correct Jim,

 So when is Enough, Enough?

[Dr Richard W Biek]

  True Tax replaces federal income tax --would make America's Founding Fathers proud.
    * Everyone is treated equally.
    * The burden of tax is reduced.
    * Tax is simplified.
    * It' is the first time in history that a tax puts power in people's hands
    instead of the government's.
    * Mandates accountability
    * Mandates efficient government.
    * Eliminates national debt
    * Provides for unfunded "entitlements" and all other requirements
    * Ensures legitimate programs that remain are properly funded
    * Returns equally all over-taxation.
    * Returns the nation's wealth back to the people.
Why True Tax Beats Any Other Tax System - Even Fair Tax
    * Simple plan
    * All play by same rules.
    * Ends class warfare.
    * Broadens the tax base.
    * A 1% transaction tax.
    * Generates over $10 trillion revenue a year.
    * Eliminates national debt in less than 5 years.
    * Downsize savings will wipe out debt.
    * Funds all other vital priorities.
    * Funds Social Security and all other trust funds.
    * Creates jobs.
    * Promotes fair competition.
    * Generates more transactions = more revenue.
    * Rebates 20% of revenue = $10,000 yearly to each adult.
    * Creates more demand in our economy.
    * Abolishes the federal income tax.
    * Makes a seamless transitition to True Tax.
    *  A 21st century constitutional tax.
    * Yet like a tax envisioned by Alexander Hamilton.

    The free, sovereign people must control and limit government to protecting our
inborn rights, defending our constitution and country from enemies domestic and
foreign.
    All national debt must be accompanied by a practical way to extinguish all of it.
    No generation has the right to bind future generations with such debt.
    Wealth of our nation belongs to all people who are citizens, not subjects under
government control.
    True Tax restores the American dream, streamlines and downsizes government,
eliminates personal income tax, and creates jobs.
    Our enemies are in control and on the attack against our morals, quality of life,
love of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, using wthholding of graduated income
tax and the estate tax.
    True Tax is easily understood, not collected by force, no returns to file.
    Both Democrats and Republicans in charge have failed miserably, destroyed our
balance, corrupted and misused revenue.
    True Tax is not partisan, but Constitutional, conserves and streamlines
government, uses free enterprise, addresses the long overdue need for equality of all
at the grassroots, regardless of political affilitation.
    True Tax lifts us out of our cloud of dread, fear of Communists, Socialists,
Progressives, Liberals, the Labor Movement, RINOs, Statists, Collectivists, Fascists,
Banksters, etc.
    True Tax is broad-based on consumption transactions, at a low rate, simple to
understand, easy to collect, needs no IRS, no audits, not based on income, hard to
evade, is universal, fair, transparent, palatable, totally equal for everyone, and restores
America's exceptional foundation laid by our Founding fathers that has brought
freedom and prosperity to more people throughout the world than than any other
system.
    Our current tax system has 70 thousand small-type pages, is a mind-boggling mess
no one can understand, broken beyond repair. Our national debt is more than $14
trillion with deficits of $150 trillion or more per year for the next 10 years, facing loss
of our birthright of freedom.
    Many programs have had their coffers raided by the federal government to favor
special interests -- Highway Trust Funds, Medicare, Social Security, US Post Office,
etc. Our tax system has deteriorated the past 60 years, because we are taxing income,
when the real money is in cash flow.
    Winners with True Tax are everyday Americans who believe in the Constitution,
honesty, and truth. Losers are those who have siphoned our resourcers and wasted
government funds and both right and left radicals. Both Republicans and Real
Democrats would benefit. Republicans could cut size of government, reduce national
debt, reverse soak the rich policies, cut taxes, preserve privacy, and personal freedom.
Democrats could champion programs for those in need eliminating fraud, waste and
abuse.

[Morton Thomson Jr.]

There are only two kinds of taxes Dr.

Direct and indirect. They are both defined in our Constitution. Changing the tax from one kind to the other is not only useless, but violates the supposedly constitutional nature of the "Unapportioned" Income Tax. This is already a violation of the Constitution. When do we stand up and say "Enough is Enough!"?

[Mike]

All very good posts, but we've ventured off topic once again.

The FairTax. I read the books. I was once in favor of it. Then I started to ask simple questions. We need to decide WHY it's being offered, and more important why we need ANY alternatives when the spending of federal taxes can't be justified in the first place.

It's my opinion that any of the recent tax schemes is a diversion for the sheeple. The IRS and Federal Reserve's deception is getting way too much scrutiny today. The jig is up. The international bankers need a replacement money laundering scheme that will pass muster by being fully supported by the people, AND THIS time, fully ratified in the proper way to make it stick.

Here's the scam. Can we name anyone who is in love with the IRS? We can all agree we have a common enemy. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend!" The elite international bankers have created an alternative for fools to rally behind out of ignorance. They have offered-up a magicians diversion to make us blind to the obvious and fall-for their new and improved extortion plans. This time, it WILL be all legal-like. The American people will violently demand that we abolish the IRS and replace it with anything, without questioning how and why we need it in the first place. We will gladly shoot ourself in our foot and declare how good it feels. The IRS as we know it will be gone and some new alphabet agency will be created to do it's dirty work.

Is there any reason that the FairTax rate can't be raised at any time in the future? All it takes is a vote of the bankers paid-for Congress. Then what do we do? It'll be ratified and lawfully sound once we demand it's replacement to enslave us even further.

Once again, I ask, 'why do we need such far-reaching taxes, where does it go, and what Constitutional authority gives them the power to do it in the first place?

Instead, federal taxes should cover ONLY what our organic Constitution gives OUR federal government the authority to spend it on. The common defense of our Republic is one of the very few expenditures authorized. All other departments and agencies should be run and paid for by the states alone.

In essence, smaller government, less oppression. Return the government to the states and people that created it!

[Robert Holtzclaw]

At last a well-thought-out response and very compelling.  Now tell me how you cleanse the brains of 300 million sheeple who have been brain-washed for over a hundred years into believing their tax dollars go to running the massive number of Govt programs.

Last night I spoke with Ted Cruz on this exact issue.  He too understands the crux of the problem and does have a three-step strategy to get us back to the Constitution.  And to quote Forest Gump: "That is all I want to say about that."

[John Gaver]

Mike, it appears that you are getting revenue mixed up with spending. We're not talking about the private sector, where revenue and spending are joined at the hip, but the government, where there is no connection whatsoever, between the two. Historically, when federal revenue is lowest, is when Congress spends the most money. That's because, when revenue is down, it's usually because the economy is in recession and there are not as many people working.  So Congress starts spending more money to support those poor, out-of-work people and spending even more on "economic stimulus packages." If they don't have enough money, then they just print some more. Even if federal revenue were to be cut in half, there would not be a reduction in spending of a single penny.

The FairTax recognizes this truism and is therefore, designed to be revenue neutral.

It would also be extremely difficult for Congress to raise the tax rate in the future, as we have seen with several state sales taxes. Every time a state tries to raise their sales tax rate, several state legislators are given the boot in the next election. That's because the consumer sees every penny that he pays in tax, on every receipt. That's a daily reminder of what he is paying to support the government. Try to raise the rate and the consumer is not only reminded of that increase in news articles the day after it goes into effect, but he is also reminded of that tax increase every time he goes to the store, all the way up to the next election day. It's that constant reminder of how much taxes we are paying that has so many in the leadership of both parties scared of the FairTax.

On January 1st of the year the FairTax goes into effect, more than half of all lobbyists in DC would be out of work. That's because more than half of all lobbying activity is tax related and a sales tax, offers no opportunity for tax favors. But with half of those lobbyists not taking up the time of our Congressmen and half of those PAC donations dried up, those elected officials would have to devote more time to listening to their constituents, it they want to win re-election.

[Rene Stover]

Very true Mike, I have been saying it is a trap almost from the beginning, and I believe Levin is an agent for the International Bankers!

[Bob Podolsky]

At least with the income tax a TPer can elect to not pay, if willing to deal with the consequences. With a sales tax every retailer becomes a tax collector and, as long as one is buying necessities, one winds up paying the tax. Isn't it obvious: the "fair tax" would be harder to resist than the income tax?

Here's an article that should shed some further light on the issue.

[Robert Holtzclaw]

To Mr. Podolsky,  you are so right!!!!  Illegal aliens would have to pay; drug dealers would have to pay; prostitutes would have to pay; those who hide their money in tax shelters (which would disappear) would have to pay, etc., etc., etc.  The Fair Tax would be much more difficult to resist.