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SSN Not Required
"Rare is the case that an employer actually needs an SSN. Indeed the Social Security Administration admits the numbers are actually their property and further that “no one needs an SSN to work in the United States.”
This latter fact isn't widely known, but NOT knowing and demanding an SSN where no authority to demand exists could get the employee demanding same, and his employer, involved in a civil action. Our recommendation is frankly to not push the SSN issue with employees. If an employee provides an SSN even on taxation forms it should only be done voluntarily and with NO adverse actions taken in case he refuses.
Form I-9: To our knowledge the only spot that asks for an actual SSN (and not an implied TIN) is on form I-9. However nothing in the law actually states the employee must provide the number. Because primarily government forms are intended for government employees, the majority of "spots for information" are considered voluntary when used by the general population NOT engaged in federal employment.
A twist: Indeed, the restrictions of public law regarding I-9 disclosures can actually RESTRICT the employer from using that number on ANY other form. In other words, do not assume you have the employee's permission to use that number on any other form or in any other way simply be virtue of its disclosure on Form I-9. You could possibly be in violation of the laws behind Form I-9!
Form W-4, Form W-2, Form W-3 and Form W-9:
Let's examine W-4 first. The title of the form identifies it as an "allowance" certificate. Its only purpose is as a permission slip to ALLOW the non-governmental employer to withhold, (take) some money from the employee's compensation on behalf of government. If you think that ALLOWANCE implies a voluntary-act, you are correct! If the form is voluntary for those outside governmental employment, then what of its content including the spot for a number? We repeat: The submission of a W-4 form or any other alternative AND ITS CONTENTS is considered a voluntary act!
Common sense will dictate that one cannot make demands on behalf of government for:
(1) a form signed under oath, with:
(2) a severe penalty of perjury jurat for non truth when:
(3) someone is simply exchanging labor for compensation and when:
(4) the person demanding is not an authorized withholding agent of government.
Hint: Were you given a badge or written delegation of authority?
BEWARE: The IRS has consistently confused these two definitions especially in their publications and forms. Unfortunately-- as employers on our distribution list have identified--the IRS does not come to the aid of employers relying on IRS publications; the IRS is under the Executive Branch of government and that branch does NOT make law.
Thus, non-governmental employers make a BIG mistake if they automatically convert or assume one number for the other without the expressed permission of the employee. It is better to err on the side of safety and to simply refuse to "do the work of government”: In a government-declared "system of voluntary compliance by the making of a return", the non-governmental employer is without authority to create a "taxpayer": that responsibility is left to another. Our recommendation is that you as an employer should NOT attempt to "create taxpayers" from non-governmental employees.
REMEMBER: NON-GOVERNMENTAL EMPLOYERS CAN ONLY REQUEST AND NOT DEMAND!
Remember that the SSN is not "owned" by the employee and further your "need" is only to satisfy his benefit if he chooses to participate in government Social Security insurance and the government withholding program. Thus, if an employee refuses to include an SSN on any government form, that right is his own. These forms are creations of government and their existence and content cannot be made mandatory outside those in government employment.
Further, you need not inquire of his reasons. His reasons might range from religious "mark" aspects to simply never applying for an SSN or to not wanting to be forced to make an oath under penalty. And you as an employer have NOTHING to fear from not including an SSN on any government form you submit to government.
The fine for EACH employee is $50 and this can be waived by simply including this statement on the "transmittal document" you send with Form W-2 and W-3: "I requested an SSN [or Form W4]. This non-federal employee did not provide the number [or Form W4]. To my knowledge he is not a federal employee or government "individual" nor does he engage in federal (26 USC) "trade or business".
No law compels a work eligible man or woman to submit a form W-4 or W-9 (or their equivalent), nor disclose an SSN as a condition of being hired or keeping one's job.
With the exception of an order from a court of competent jurisdiction issued by a duly qualified judge, no amounts can be lawfully taken from one's pay (for taxes, fees or other charges) without the worker's explicit, knowing, voluntary, written consent.
Section 7 of Public Law 93-579 provides that:
(a)(1) It shall be unlawful for any Federal, State or local government agency to deny any individual any right, benefit, or privilege provided by law because of such individual’s refusal to disclose Social Security account number.
There is no law requiring you to obtain or use the Social Security Number. The Social Security System is a voluntary System. The Social Security Act does not require a person to have an SSN to live and work in the United States of America, nor does it require an SSN simply for the purpose of having one.
If there was a law for the SSN, why does a major food chain, Taco Bell, have "optional" printed by the SSN on their applications?
The IRS only requires the employer/payer to request the SSN. If the employee/payee refuses to give or doesn’t have an SSN, the employer sends an affidavit to the IRS stating that they requested the SSN and the employee refused, (Indemnification Letter). The penalties will not be assessed against the employer.
See also:
Nowlin vs. D.M.V. 53 Cal. App. 4th 1529 Apr. 2, 1997
For video, see - http://constitutionclub.ning.com/
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Robert DeCarlo on
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I have not signed a 1099 form for about eight years, would I still be bound by those signatures or would they not apply as I have not signed in the current year?
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Be careful - I spotted several flaws in the Great IRS Hoax.
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Permalink Reply by Simon Leland on
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Follow up to SSN and Birth Certificate drama:
So I just got a call from the hospital and the State of CA is refusing to issue a Birth Certificate to my daughter because I refused the following info on the form.
Info they wanted on me and my wife (not on the baby)
Occupation
SSN
date of first Prenatal visit
date of last prenatal visit
number of total visits
insurance type: private or gov funded
there were a few other random questions (i can't recall off the top of my head, but I did get a copy of the form)
None of this info will show on the certificate just pure data mining!!
What to do, what to do??
Simon
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For gosh sakes, count your blessings they won't give a Birth Cert.. Don't enslave your daughter to the corporation. Birth Certs. never existed prior to the Civil War. At that time, it was against the law to inter racially marry. It was a means of keeping track of the Blacks that married the Whites. A Birth Certificate was their means of keeping track of the children produced in those Black/White marriages. BIRTH CERTIFICATES ARE A WAREHOUSE RECEIPT, WITH THE GOVERNMENT CLAIMING TO OWN YOUR CHILD. A MARRIAGE LICENSE IS A CONTRACT ENABLING THE GOVERNMENT TO BE THE DOMINANT 3rd PARTY IN YOUR MARRIAGE, AND THE GOVERNMENT CLAIMING TO OWN ANY CHILDREN YOU PRODUCE. Don't subject your daughter to the corporation, and you may want to get a Cert. of marriage, as I talked about a few days ago, and get a divorce from your Marriage License. ALL LICENSES ARE ABOUT COMMERCE. The Birth Cert. is also symbolic of birthing a ship. Your daughter recently left the "Birthing Canal", and thus was destined to get "registered". Thank goodness you refused it!
You need to make, (or buy one on line) a "Certificate of Live Birth". Record it in your family Bible. That is all that used to be done.
Another point about the Marriage License and Birth Cert.: It is the government claiming to own your child is what permits them to come and take your child away, even when there has been no crime committed. They take them for sex trafficking, and also the States get paid for each child that they have, paid by the FED. govt. It is a money making racket for each of the states, which enables them to indoctrinate them in the public school system. The goal is identical to what Hitler did: to separate the kids from family and Christianity, teaching them to be obedient to government.
Goi is what the one world bankers call us- sub human cattle is what it means, and what do you do with calves to wean them? You separate them from their mothers. They treat us just like cattle ranchers treat cows and calves.
Google up Pamela and Will Gaston. The corporate state of Oregon stole his daughter years ago, and he has never gotten her back, in spite of winning their case, which took years. They have never gotten the settlement. She was assassinated, and all their animals killed, after winning the case. An ag spray plane fogged their house and killed them. Will happened not to be there at the time. Pamela lived long enough to tell Will what happened after he got home. The spray job was intended for him too. I know Will personally. Do a search on the book "SUI JURIS". They wrote it. Will had an atty. research what happened to his daughter. The best he could find is that she is being held in an insane asylum. Who knows what they put her through.
I have another friend who is going through it right now. A school teacher is/was being used as a tool to take her kid. Be glad they are refusing to give a Birth Cert. The number on the lower left is a trust account number assigned to the birthed person. It can be traced at Edward Jones and the like, to find its current value. It is just a warehouse receipt, with the govt. claiming ownership of your kid.
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so where does this leave my daughter..... Illegal Alien, Citizen of the World?? how would she prove that she was born to US parents... get a job, enroll in school , drivers license, ect.
Like it or not we all live in this system. I'm not trying to make her life difficult, just trying to protect her.... but to what ends. Can you living in the continental US and completely NOT conform to the system?? Or do you just end up dead? I don't want that for her either. I don't want to be a martyr, just trying to do what's right.
Simon
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Ever think of filing an affidavit with the County Health that Use to Record the BC's.
It may have moved up to a national level.
Just get the Doctor to Sign it also stating he delivered the baby and born alive, and born healthy with the eye treatment administered.
And, no other information is needed by Government other than Mom and Dad, Citizensship Status etc.
First Check with the County Clerk's Office to determine what type of information is needed to be officially filed in the Official Records of the Court.
File it there afterwards and pay a filing fee.
Start our own recording of births without the damned BC.
I am lucky, in 1942 born on the farm and no BC until after inducted into the AF who went for one in order to get me a Security Clearance.
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It leaves her as an unenfranchised Common Law Freewoman!
Look at healthcare right now. Do you think there will be any for her at any price?
Driving is a commercial activity. If she is not being paid to travel on the roads, she is not a driver, but is just a traveler, and you don't need a license to travel. If she wants to subject herself to the corporation (hopefully she won't) she can do it when she comes of age. If you have her registered now, you may regret it. This corporation that is feigning to be our government isn't going to be around by the time she comes of age anyway. They are currently in the process of collapsing from their own corruption. Just be patient and stay out of the way of the violence. That is what I am doing. The wicked will destroy the wicked. There are plenty of gang members and other criminals, both in and out of government, and there will be foreign troops here as well. Just be repentant and obedient and you will most likely get through it.
Democracies seldom last more than 100 years, and they always have a bloody ending. The 49% won't tolerate their rights being trampled on by the 51% much longer.
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Just food for thought: The IRS has only existed for 100 years. Man has been on planet earth for 6,000 years. What did man (including women) ever do before the IRS was created? How did man ever get along without the IRS and world bankers? How will we ever be able to get along without them when they implode?? (tongue in cheek) HOW WILL WE EVER SURVIVE?? very well!!
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See if you can find the IRS Corporation in this document.
How about the United States, Inc; or Federal Reserve.
They are supposedly Corporations under the United States (Which United States).
We have been screwed for 150 years or more -
GOOGLE 14th Amendment - Never Ratified Properly. Congress seated the Southern Reps and Senators in order to RATIFY No Slavery, in 1865. However, Congress refused to seat congress with Southern Reps and Senators in order to Ratify the 14th Amendment; the 16th Was also screw up and never ratified.
But to see when the bull thit of Government Started, GOOGLE the Original 13rh Amendment, when and where it is published as RATIRIED before 1820, and Monroe signing that it had never been ratified sometimes in 1820.
The Original 13th is published in many new STATE CONSTITUTIONS word for WORD as in the United States Constituton and then MONROE made it disappear.
CRIMINAL GOVERNMENT and PRESIDENTS go all the way back to early 1800's.
About the BC issue: Check your DL in states; IF YOUR NAME IS IN ALL CAPS (like this sentence), THEN YOU ARE A ROMAN SLAVE, and your name is in a NATIONAL DATABASE for TRACKING. Be sure that if a DOCTOR ever has to put you to sleep for an OPERATION that they do so in front of your WITNESS. Or you wind up with an RFI CHIP in your ASS.
You can then be tracked down to the nearest fire hydrant, intersection, telephone booth (HA HA - that one is gone now).
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Hey yeah , where are all those phone booths ?
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Permalink Reply by Morton Thomson Jr. on
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No Simon,
Don't take all of this as a sentence, but a chance to live free. I have a job; I do not supply anyone with an SSN, EVER. There is no SSN or vaccine needed for school and remember; all licences are for COMMERCIAL activity only. You do not need a licence to exist, travel, or learn. Besides, why would you enroll her in the Government Indoctrination Center anyway?
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Well yesterday I went back to the hospital and submitted a "F-U" affidavit and sent it all back into the state.... in 6 weeks I know if they reject it again. Anyhow, I've heard horror stories about people w/o BC and the headaches they've been put through... IE get picked up for jaywalking and held indefinitely. Anyhow, I hear what everyone is saying, we don't need paperwork to breath and live. I get that, but we're old cantankerous men and this is my daughters life.
Anyhow, I'm swamped at work and my wife is having some major postpartum issues. I’m burning the candle at both ends but mostly just burning out. I need to take all this just one step at a time. If I try to solve all this today I'll just go postal (literally there is a local IRS office). Now admit it, that made all of you smile just a little!!
Simon
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