SSN Not Required

[Morton Thomson Jr.]

"Rare is the case that an employer actually needs an SSN. Indeed the Social Security Administration admits the numbers are actually their property and further that “no one needs an SSN to work in the United States.”

This latter fact isn't widely known, but NOT knowing and demanding an SSN where no authority to demand exists could get the employee demanding same, and his employer, involved in a civil action. Our recommendation is frankly to not push the SSN issue with employees. If an employee provides an SSN even on taxation forms it should only be done voluntarily and with NO adverse actions taken in case he refuses.

Form I-9: To our knowledge the only spot that asks for an actual SSN (and not an implied TIN) is on form I-9. However nothing in the law actually states the employee must provide the number. Because primarily government forms are intended for government employees, the majority of "spots for information" are considered voluntary when used by the general population NOT engaged in federal employment.

A twist: Indeed, the restrictions of public law regarding I-9 disclosures can actually RESTRICT the employer from using that number on ANY other form. In other words, do not assume you have the employee's permission to use that number on any other form or in any other way simply be virtue of its disclosure on Form I-9. You could possibly be in violation of the laws behind Form I-9!

Form W-4, Form W-2, Form W-3 and Form W-9: 

Let's examine W-4 first. The title of the form identifies it as an "allowance" certificate. Its only purpose is as a permission slip to ALLOW the non-governmental employer to withhold, (take) some money from the employee's compensation on behalf of government. If you think that ALLOWANCE implies a voluntary-act, you are correct! If the form is voluntary for those outside governmental employment, then what of its content including the spot for a number? We repeat: The submission of a W-4 form or any other alternative AND ITS CONTENTS is considered a voluntary act!

Common sense will dictate that one cannot make demands on behalf of government for:

(1) a form signed under oath, with:

(2) a severe penalty of perjury jurat for non truth when:

(3) someone is simply exchanging labor for compensation and when:

(4) the person demanding is not an authorized withholding agent of government.

Hint: Were you given a badge or written delegation of authority?

BEWARE: The IRS has consistently confused these two definitions especially in their publications and forms. Unfortunately-- as employers on our distribution list have identified--the IRS does not come to the aid of employers relying on IRS publications; the IRS is under the Executive Branch of government and that branch does NOT make law.

Thus, non-governmental employers make a BIG mistake if they automatically convert or assume one number for the other without the expressed permission of the employee. It is better to err on the side of safety and to simply refuse to "do the work of government”: In a government-declared "system of voluntary compliance by the making of a return", the non-governmental employer is without authority to create a "taxpayer": that responsibility is left to another. Our recommendation is that you as an employer should NOT attempt to "create taxpayers" from non-governmental employees.

REMEMBER: NON-GOVERNMENTAL EMPLOYERS CAN ONLY REQUEST AND NOT DEMAND!

Remember that the SSN is not "owned" by the employee and further your "need" is only to satisfy his benefit if he chooses to participate in government Social Security insurance and the government withholding program. Thus, if an employee refuses to include an SSN on any government form, that right is his own. These forms are creations of government and their existence and content cannot be made mandatory outside those in government employment.

Further, you need not inquire of his reasons. His reasons might range from religious "mark" aspects to simply never applying for an SSN or to not wanting to be forced to make an oath under penalty. And you as an employer have NOTHING to fear from not including an SSN on any government form you submit to government.

The fine for EACH employee is $50 and this can be waived by simply including this statement on the "transmittal document" you send with Form W-2 and W-3: "I requested an SSN [or Form W4]. This non-federal employee did not provide the number [or Form W4]. To my knowledge he is not a federal employee or government "individual" nor does he engage in federal (26 USC) "trade or business".

No law compels a work eligible man or woman to submit a form W-4 or W-9 (or their equivalent), nor disclose an SSN as a condition of being hired or keeping one's job.

With the exception of an order from a court of competent jurisdiction issued by a duly qualified judge, no amounts can be lawfully taken from one's pay (for taxes, fees or other charges) without the worker's explicit, knowing, voluntary, written consent.

Section 7 of Public Law 93-579 provides that:

(a)(1) It shall be unlawful for any Federal, State or local government agency to deny any individual any right, benefit, or privilege provided by law because of such individual’s refusal to disclose Social Security account number.

There is no law requiring you to obtain or use the Social Security Number. The Social Security System is a voluntary System. The Social Security Act does not require a person to have an SSN to live and work in the United States of America, nor does it require an SSN simply for the purpose of having one.

If there was a law for the SSN, why does a major food chain, Taco Bell, have "optional" printed by the SSN on their applications?

The IRS only requires the employer/payer to request the SSN. If the employee/payee refuses to give or doesn’t have an SSN, the employer sends an affidavit to the IRS stating that they requested the SSN and the employee refused, (Indemnification Letter). The penalties will not be assessed against the employer.

See also:

Nowlin vs. D.M.V. 53 Cal. App. 4th 1529 Apr. 2, 1997

For video, see - http://constitutionclub.ning.com/

[Rosanna Miller]

Leldon I want to file in the "recorders" dept. a lien on my property to MYSELF... that way if anybody in the future tries to lien me they won't be able to take what I sell my house for is that doable? Makes perfect sense to me...

Given the thieving lawyer guardian and his minions, have raped $850,000 from my families estate the lien on my house doesn't even begin to touch what they took from us.

I am anticipating them to sliver in and financially come after me one way or another.  What do you say?

[joseph cronin jr.]

Rosanna you're right , put the common law lein on your own personal property ; talk to Hagan Smith 352-502-2060 . Good luck .

[Rosanna Miller]

Thanks Joseph.... yes Leldon I would be the FIRST lien at least right now... If I don't get it done one of the CABAL will come along and beat me to it...

Personally as wicked as I know they are everybody should probably be doing this... everybody is up for grabs.....

Is Hagan Smith in Florida???? if so I know who he is.. Thanks again. I think it would be a Mechanics lien....right?

[Leldon Thomas Oates]

first in time is first in line. they would have to pay the first lien holder in full before they could seize anything.

[joseph cronin jr.]

Yes Hagan is in Florida and no , it's a common law lein .

[Rosanna Miller]

thanks I talked to Hagan last night a little. He is the state coordinator for NLA in Fl. I am for Ohio. Although I didn't know he was active in CL liens but we will talk again.

I understand now you mean common law.. We are always searching for our ART III common law courts.. I just posted this on the NASGA website and since I can't find the thread on CC about the Elder abuse of my parents that was started I am going to post it here. I think many would like to read this lawsuit. At least we know they believe the "common law" still exists and where it is dealt with we just can't find the courts...

This story should be read in its entirety even though all of us are always "out of time"...

 

Fighting to Honor a Father’s Last Wish: To Die at Home

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/26/nyregion/family-fights-health-car...

 

The WHORE-DOGS who took my father from me and made him suffer will surely spend eternity in their corporate HELL!!!

 

This LAWSUIT was linked in the story. 

https://oig.hhs.gov/fraud/enforcement/criminal/2012/Life_Care_Compl...

you might want to look at this...

notice under jurisdiction and venue it states "common law causes of action under 28 USC 1367" Article III courts.....

[Osceola Renegade]

Look at the DEED.

if it says:  BILLY B. BULLCRAP and BILLYJOE  J. BULLCRAP, a/k/a as Billy B. Bullcrap and BillyJoe J. Bullcrap, then you may have already lost your property to the federal government through the Straw Man program.

Look at your State DL:  NAME IN ALL CAPS and SAME NAME ON YOUR BIRTH CERTIFICATE in Lower Case.  Well, you have just been entered into the NATIONAL TRACKING DATABASE.

Think about this one:  If you go in for Surgery, can you take a personal observer to examine all instruments to be sure that a RFI Chip is not implanted.  All GOV has to do is put that RFI Number in the NATIONAL TRACKING DATABASE, and they can track you at every red light in the nation. 

Thanks to BILL GATES give away of certain Operating System Functions to NSA, you have been royally had.

One that I figured out 10 Years ago and it is gone in last year;

1st Address in Your Contact List.  [e-mail]  notice it is blue and hyperlinked to activate mail.  It is false and your mail server should not send it and should lock any following addresses.

Last Address in Your Contact List  [e-mail] Not again hyperlink.  If the VIRUS started at the bottom and listed in reverse, it should fail and lock the virus.

Email now sends around these two fool proof blocks of days gone by.

Have a Happy one researching your STRAWMAN - You may already be sold down the tube.

[Leldon Thomas Oates]

i would get someone i trust to put the lien on it.first lien will have to be settled before the second lien. make it a large amount.

[Rosanna Miller]

exactly... that is the whole point. beat them to it.. the thieving snakes.

[Leldon Thomas Oates]

if you put the lien on it hey may find a way to beat it. if another party does it, it would be harder to break. just my opinion.

[Morton Thomson Jr.]

All good questions Virginia.

Let me see if I can help

"How does the employer take out for taxes??" He doesn't and that is between you and your government anyway, not the employer and the gov't.

"Since no penalties are assessed on employer, won't there be a penalty assessed on me?"  No. the codes strictly say that the penalty is for "Withholding Agents" which you are not. And actually your "Employer" is not either and that's why if you sue the "Employer" for all the taxes he has "withheld", the IRS will not come to his aid.

"If the employer is not going to withhold money for my soc. security taxes then how will I fill out my yr. end taxes?" There is no law requiring you to fill out and sign anything. Can you be forced to sign an agreement with me? NO. So why would you feel you can be forced to sign anything; especially something you don't agree with? Besides the form you use to do it is the wrong form anyway.

Sorry if I seem to cut you off here, but ALL of these answers can be found in "The Great IRS Hoax" by Chris Hansen - A free publication available online, dedicated to deciphering the minutia for those who do not know.

Does that help? Go find the book. Read it. Tell everyone you know.

[Wayne Bachmann]

As a follow up to all of these comments, let me make this comment. If you have already entered into a contract with them by signing one or more of their contract forms, be sure to follow through and not violate the contract. I have friends who have been, and some still are, in prison for filing 1099 forms. The IRS has come back on them and falsely claimed violations of those contracts and had them sent to prison through corrupt judges and naive/uninformed juries. I refuse to sign any contracts with them, so there is no LEGITIMATE way for them to do that to me. It doesn't mean they may not try, but there is nothing of a lawful nature they can do. It would violate Commercial contract Law. Then they would loose their bonds. Learn about UBC (Universal Bonding Code). Go after the bonds of any Public Servant(?) who violates your rights.