SSN Not Required

[Morton Thomson Jr.]

"Rare is the case that an employer actually needs an SSN. Indeed the Social Security Administration admits the numbers are actually their property and further that “no one needs an SSN to work in the United States.”

This latter fact isn't widely known, but NOT knowing and demanding an SSN where no authority to demand exists could get the employee demanding same, and his employer, involved in a civil action. Our recommendation is frankly to not push the SSN issue with employees. If an employee provides an SSN even on taxation forms it should only be done voluntarily and with NO adverse actions taken in case he refuses.

Form I-9: To our knowledge the only spot that asks for an actual SSN (and not an implied TIN) is on form I-9. However nothing in the law actually states the employee must provide the number. Because primarily government forms are intended for government employees, the majority of "spots for information" are considered voluntary when used by the general population NOT engaged in federal employment.

A twist: Indeed, the restrictions of public law regarding I-9 disclosures can actually RESTRICT the employer from using that number on ANY other form. In other words, do not assume you have the employee's permission to use that number on any other form or in any other way simply be virtue of its disclosure on Form I-9. You could possibly be in violation of the laws behind Form I-9!

Form W-4, Form W-2, Form W-3 and Form W-9: 

Let's examine W-4 first. The title of the form identifies it as an "allowance" certificate. Its only purpose is as a permission slip to ALLOW the non-governmental employer to withhold, (take) some money from the employee's compensation on behalf of government. If you think that ALLOWANCE implies a voluntary-act, you are correct! If the form is voluntary for those outside governmental employment, then what of its content including the spot for a number? We repeat: The submission of a W-4 form or any other alternative AND ITS CONTENTS is considered a voluntary act!

Common sense will dictate that one cannot make demands on behalf of government for:

(1) a form signed under oath, with:

(2) a severe penalty of perjury jurat for non truth when:

(3) someone is simply exchanging labor for compensation and when:

(4) the person demanding is not an authorized withholding agent of government.

Hint: Were you given a badge or written delegation of authority?

BEWARE: The IRS has consistently confused these two definitions especially in their publications and forms. Unfortunately-- as employers on our distribution list have identified--the IRS does not come to the aid of employers relying on IRS publications; the IRS is under the Executive Branch of government and that branch does NOT make law.

Thus, non-governmental employers make a BIG mistake if they automatically convert or assume one number for the other without the expressed permission of the employee. It is better to err on the side of safety and to simply refuse to "do the work of government”: In a government-declared "system of voluntary compliance by the making of a return", the non-governmental employer is without authority to create a "taxpayer": that responsibility is left to another. Our recommendation is that you as an employer should NOT attempt to "create taxpayers" from non-governmental employees.

REMEMBER: NON-GOVERNMENTAL EMPLOYERS CAN ONLY REQUEST AND NOT DEMAND!

Remember that the SSN is not "owned" by the employee and further your "need" is only to satisfy his benefit if he chooses to participate in government Social Security insurance and the government withholding program. Thus, if an employee refuses to include an SSN on any government form, that right is his own. These forms are creations of government and their existence and content cannot be made mandatory outside those in government employment.

Further, you need not inquire of his reasons. His reasons might range from religious "mark" aspects to simply never applying for an SSN or to not wanting to be forced to make an oath under penalty. And you as an employer have NOTHING to fear from not including an SSN on any government form you submit to government.

The fine for EACH employee is $50 and this can be waived by simply including this statement on the "transmittal document" you send with Form W-2 and W-3: "I requested an SSN [or Form W4]. This non-federal employee did not provide the number [or Form W4]. To my knowledge he is not a federal employee or government "individual" nor does he engage in federal (26 USC) "trade or business".

No law compels a work eligible man or woman to submit a form W-4 or W-9 (or their equivalent), nor disclose an SSN as a condition of being hired or keeping one's job.

With the exception of an order from a court of competent jurisdiction issued by a duly qualified judge, no amounts can be lawfully taken from one's pay (for taxes, fees or other charges) without the worker's explicit, knowing, voluntary, written consent.

Section 7 of Public Law 93-579 provides that:

(a)(1) It shall be unlawful for any Federal, State or local government agency to deny any individual any right, benefit, or privilege provided by law because of such individual’s refusal to disclose Social Security account number.

There is no law requiring you to obtain or use the Social Security Number. The Social Security System is a voluntary System. The Social Security Act does not require a person to have an SSN to live and work in the United States of America, nor does it require an SSN simply for the purpose of having one.

If there was a law for the SSN, why does a major food chain, Taco Bell, have "optional" printed by the SSN on their applications?

The IRS only requires the employer/payer to request the SSN. If the employee/payee refuses to give or doesn’t have an SSN, the employer sends an affidavit to the IRS stating that they requested the SSN and the employee refused, (Indemnification Letter). The penalties will not be assessed against the employer.

See also:

Nowlin vs. D.M.V. 53 Cal. App. 4th 1529 Apr. 2, 1997

For video, see - http://constitutionclub.ning.com/

[Andee Kleinhans]

Renegade!  If you would post this to my business email I would appreciate it; this state is in the throes of a governor so much like the DC empty suits it is not funny...this will help even though it  is for the entire nation.

I am an activist..I am also computer stupid!  I am told I can cut and paste this to my email but when I try that, it does not [e-mail]  and thanks if you will.  This, I presume voids the TSA, Patriot Act, and the NDAA to name a few more..gee this is a wonderful post..I just bet you made a lot of people's day a whole lot better!  I also presume this will void all the stupid EOs that came through from this empty suit?

[Osceola Renegade]

Click on PDF to OPEN it.

FILE->Save As -> (Drill down to where you want it or default to DOCUMENTS)  SAVE

[Andee Kleinhans]

Yes, I read the whole thing on Search..you are amazing, may I say that in all honesty!  In fact, if this bozo does this, til then you have given us hope.   

[Osceola Renegade]

Note the W4, W2, 1040 discussion.

Research UCC 1-308

You should never sign a form with the term "Under penalty of perjury ........

Two reasons,  a Crooked Judge recognizes this as you giving away your constitutional rights.

Second, the Government is not required to follow the same rules this minute ...

If a government official lies, they get a payraise

You get jail time.

Note the difference.

REMOVE the statement, or cross it out and enter N/A.  1-308 UCC.  You reserve your rights.

Think deeply about the connotations

[Wayne Bachmann]

I just got out of court 6 weeks ago where the Deputies, Prosecutors, and judge refused to honor my reservation of rights. You cannot keep people from violating your rights, but you can hold them accountable and sue them, and that is what is happening. When you get done getting violated, get the minutes from the court. You then have the proof that they violated your rights. Use the Uniform Bonding Code against them and have their bonds jerked, and get paid to defend yourself against the abuses of commercial law! They are not bonded for commercial law. Any time they want to fine you, they are engaging you in commercial law, and doing so without being properly bonded. A kiss of death to their careers.

As for signing under pain of penalty, that depends on your perspective and use. If someone is accusing you of wrongdoing, they need to do so by an affidavit, signed under pain and penalty of perjury. They have to put their reputation on the line that they are saying the truth about what they are accusing you of.

If you are telling the truth in an affidavit, you shouldn't be ashamed to sign under pain and penalty of perjury. An undisputed affidavit stands as truth.

[Osceola Renegade]

Fraud on the Court

Also, define truth.  Truth as twisted by the laws and the Judge; or truth as witnessed by God.  Both sides have to practice the equal in truth.

[Wayne Bachmann]

Thank you for this very timely piece of info. I cannot quote case law while I am using contract (commercial) law, but the application of fraud applies to both. I am going to have it here at my side while I am bringing these charges against these individuals. Thank you so much!

[Osceola Renegade]

Re-reading and Ye be onto a point that I was going to research next.

The Universal Bonding Code - just got several papers downloaded.  If you have a filing example, could you post (redacted) as a PDF file?

This is one of the future things I had to research in how to bring SCHOOL Boards back into the real TAX PAYER desired method of teaching.  No more kindergarten homosexual events ever.

If you ever want to test public on the validity of Government Education, go to a grocery store, collect your wares, and choose the checkout line with a very young male or female cashier.  Be sure to have at least $5.00 in small change with a number of pennies.  Let us say that the total is $18.37.  So you lay a $20.00 bill and state you have some change, and count out the $3.37 in nickels, dimes, pennies.  You should get back a $5.00 bill.  IF YOU ARE LUCKY.

An easier method is when the Clerk ask you "Did you find everything OK while Shopping"?.  Response.  No.  You see, there is no picture of a Soy Cow posted, and I would like to know what type of Milk I am buying.  Is it a Chinese Cow?  Or some new breed.

Most do not have the slightest idea that SOY MILK comes from BEANS.

The most classical example was the teen age girl responded that a Space Craft Landed at night and aliens milked the cows while they grazed in large fields.  The bagger, did not have a clue in his life what transpired but tried to add his two cents worth to prove his importance.  The manager overheard and assumed the bagging process.

Uniform Bonding Code is my next task to undertake.

[Wayne Bachmann]

I like your soy milk story! I am constantly watching and counting my change, and quite often have to teach them the old fashioned proper way to make change, as this younger generation has no clue. I have been shorted several times, and had to show them.

I have no clue about this PDF stuff. I am not done sending, but I have maxed out my limit on Google for the moment, or maybe it is an ISP problem. Anyway, I am going to have to wait for a while before I can send anything. How did you get anything from me? Does Morton have it posted already?

[joseph cronin jr.]

Since we're talking IRS , my question cocerns most people still trapped in the system . If you still have an SSN and work in a civilian job ; what W form should you file and is all that income taxable ? The answer should help the majority of UScitizens and put a real dent in the system . For entertainment purposes only , of course .

[Wayne Bachmann]

I don't file any, and haven't for years. They are contracts, and since I am not employed by any corporation, I am not required to file anything with anybody.

[Morton Thomson Jr.]

That would be a W-8 BEN, joseph. That's the form you file. Read the form and it will answer your other question.