SSN Not Required

[Morton Thomson Jr.]

"Rare is the case that an employer actually needs an SSN. Indeed the Social Security Administration admits the numbers are actually their property and further that “no one needs an SSN to work in the United States.”

This latter fact isn't widely known, but NOT knowing and demanding an SSN where no authority to demand exists could get the employee demanding same, and his employer, involved in a civil action. Our recommendation is frankly to not push the SSN issue with employees. If an employee provides an SSN even on taxation forms it should only be done voluntarily and with NO adverse actions taken in case he refuses.

Form I-9: To our knowledge the only spot that asks for an actual SSN (and not an implied TIN) is on form I-9. However nothing in the law actually states the employee must provide the number. Because primarily government forms are intended for government employees, the majority of "spots for information" are considered voluntary when used by the general population NOT engaged in federal employment.

A twist: Indeed, the restrictions of public law regarding I-9 disclosures can actually RESTRICT the employer from using that number on ANY other form. In other words, do not assume you have the employee's permission to use that number on any other form or in any other way simply be virtue of its disclosure on Form I-9. You could possibly be in violation of the laws behind Form I-9!

Form W-4, Form W-2, Form W-3 and Form W-9: 

Let's examine W-4 first. The title of the form identifies it as an "allowance" certificate. Its only purpose is as a permission slip to ALLOW the non-governmental employer to withhold, (take) some money from the employee's compensation on behalf of government. If you think that ALLOWANCE implies a voluntary-act, you are correct! If the form is voluntary for those outside governmental employment, then what of its content including the spot for a number? We repeat: The submission of a W-4 form or any other alternative AND ITS CONTENTS is considered a voluntary act!

Common sense will dictate that one cannot make demands on behalf of government for:

(1) a form signed under oath, with:

(2) a severe penalty of perjury jurat for non truth when:

(3) someone is simply exchanging labor for compensation and when:

(4) the person demanding is not an authorized withholding agent of government.

Hint: Were you given a badge or written delegation of authority?

BEWARE: The IRS has consistently confused these two definitions especially in their publications and forms. Unfortunately-- as employers on our distribution list have identified--the IRS does not come to the aid of employers relying on IRS publications; the IRS is under the Executive Branch of government and that branch does NOT make law.

Thus, non-governmental employers make a BIG mistake if they automatically convert or assume one number for the other without the expressed permission of the employee. It is better to err on the side of safety and to simply refuse to "do the work of government”: In a government-declared "system of voluntary compliance by the making of a return", the non-governmental employer is without authority to create a "taxpayer": that responsibility is left to another. Our recommendation is that you as an employer should NOT attempt to "create taxpayers" from non-governmental employees.

REMEMBER: NON-GOVERNMENTAL EMPLOYERS CAN ONLY REQUEST AND NOT DEMAND!

Remember that the SSN is not "owned" by the employee and further your "need" is only to satisfy his benefit if he chooses to participate in government Social Security insurance and the government withholding program. Thus, if an employee refuses to include an SSN on any government form, that right is his own. These forms are creations of government and their existence and content cannot be made mandatory outside those in government employment.

Further, you need not inquire of his reasons. His reasons might range from religious "mark" aspects to simply never applying for an SSN or to not wanting to be forced to make an oath under penalty. And you as an employer have NOTHING to fear from not including an SSN on any government form you submit to government.

The fine for EACH employee is $50 and this can be waived by simply including this statement on the "transmittal document" you send with Form W-2 and W-3: "I requested an SSN [or Form W4]. This non-federal employee did not provide the number [or Form W4]. To my knowledge he is not a federal employee or government "individual" nor does he engage in federal (26 USC) "trade or business".

No law compels a work eligible man or woman to submit a form W-4 or W-9 (or their equivalent), nor disclose an SSN as a condition of being hired or keeping one's job.

With the exception of an order from a court of competent jurisdiction issued by a duly qualified judge, no amounts can be lawfully taken from one's pay (for taxes, fees or other charges) without the worker's explicit, knowing, voluntary, written consent.

Section 7 of Public Law 93-579 provides that:

(a)(1) It shall be unlawful for any Federal, State or local government agency to deny any individual any right, benefit, or privilege provided by law because of such individual’s refusal to disclose Social Security account number.

There is no law requiring you to obtain or use the Social Security Number. The Social Security System is a voluntary System. The Social Security Act does not require a person to have an SSN to live and work in the United States of America, nor does it require an SSN simply for the purpose of having one.

If there was a law for the SSN, why does a major food chain, Taco Bell, have "optional" printed by the SSN on their applications?

The IRS only requires the employer/payer to request the SSN. If the employee/payee refuses to give or doesn’t have an SSN, the employer sends an affidavit to the IRS stating that they requested the SSN and the employee refused, (Indemnification Letter). The penalties will not be assessed against the employer.

See also:

Nowlin vs. D.M.V. 53 Cal. App. 4th 1529 Apr. 2, 1997

For video, see - http://constitutionclub.ning.com/

[Rose Colombo]

It's my opinion that the SS# should be encrypted and only given to the IRS!   Why does anyone else need the entire number including banks, Insurance Companies, etc. when they can be stolen - hacked into - No one should have access to the entire number except the individual, IRS, and even the employer only needs the last 4 numbers to verify.

[Osceola Renegade]

You are not mentioning that the IRS is a foreign Corporation!  Registered in Puerto Rico.  Same as USA, Inc  of Washington D.C. Both corporations are not registered in the US. And we still pay taxes and give out our SS# - while Obama's is false, and he has hidden his records. Now he wants to Veto a Bill that says he has to follow the laws.

Someone take the Osceola Filing Above and create a memo to his/her Congressman.  Thanks to email, and posting info on a number of forums, I am able to cut and paste below.

COPY:  

http://www.dcclothesline.com/2014/03/16/atf-raids-ares-armor-secure...

One Response to ATF Raids Ares Armor to Confiscate Legally Protected Customer List

1. 1.       Possum says:

March 16, 2014 at 1:42 pm

Watch and see if Obama veto’s the law that Congress has passed that he must abide by the laws of the land. If he Veto’s it, he shuts down the ATF. There is no law of the land anymore.

Write to your congressman and tell them to cut off all funding to the Executive Branch immediately. Here is an example from my email contacts with a PASS IT ON NOTE.

Congressman sent to deleted and name of individual deleted to protect his identity in time of crisis.

TO:
Name: Address: City/State/Zip: E-mail: Telephone: Issue: Message Subject: Illegal President.

Message Text: Bill to require Obama to follow the Law.

Two things occur with the Bill.

One: If Obama veto’s a passed bill requiring him to follow the law, then he shuts down the Federal Government or the Corporate United States, immediately.

Two: You must immediately de-fund the Executive Branch. If these two events do not occur in this step; then you actually Shut down the Congress as well. That puts me and the rest of the Patriot Americans in Control immediately. Since there are no laws, then the Federal Reserve is closed, the Judicial Branch is Shut down, Congress is shut down, and the Executive Branch is shut down. Where is our military left in this – there is no paid military either since the President has decided that there are no laws.

The Point is: CONGRESS KNOWS THAT OBAMA is a CRIMINAL in many WAYS. So impeach him.

You may have one last option and that is to place notice with the SCOTUS under Title 20 as door to open to make Congress act, or make the SCOTUS act. SCOTUS Action could be to assemble a GRAND JURY to give a true bill on OBAMA Crimes. After all, if Obama signs a VETO – Laws do not exist anymore!

And, as a Voting Citizen for a CIVIL AUTHORITY, Title 18 USC 4 – is the citizen’s tool to identify the crime (the Veto to not follow laws) to you as Misprision of Felony, and I am doing that also.

Would you like a response?

Now, this will get the congress in a twit because the ball is bounced back to them.

================

One more thought.  We will still have Common Law as we had in the 1300's-1400's. Those with money can live and move forward.  Those without money will become serfs.

 

[Rosanna Miller]

We are getting the common law grand juries formed now....

national liberty alliance. stay tuned or better yet join in it will go faster.

[Robert DeCarlo]

Impeach the imposter, not going to happen anyway. Even if it did he would not leave office. For example, Clinton stayed in office.

He needs to be arrested and tried for treason, that will not happen either unfortunately.

[Wayne Bachmann]

Rose!, You're back!,

I have good news for everyone. I just got notified by the "Republic" President James Geiger, of a speech that Obama just made, recognizing that we, in the Republic, are going to be set free of the tyranny of the corporate United States of America, and that includes the IRS. I am going to forward this document to Keith for him to expose to everyone.

Wayne Bachmann

[Rosanna Miller]

oh gosh Wayne please hurry......I might be able to go get Dad.... Why would Obama set us free????

[Wayne Bachmann]

Obama is only a puppet on strings under Putin and Obama. I won't take time to elaborate on what I just revealed, but you can get the info yourself by registering with GRI, where Glenn Beck gets most of his info from. Obama is under the thumb of Putin, probably because of oil debts. China holds a major interest on us also. I forgot to mention George Soros holding strings on the Democratic and Republican Parties. He controls both of them.

Anyway, We in the Republic have been laying low, letting the Tea Party expose the problems (I am one of them also), and now you are going to see a massive registration movement to get registered with the Republic. The heat is on, and (Personal opinion- once the education level gets up a ways) once the public gets educated, there will be some major changes coming. I hope it will all be peaceful, but like I said elsewhere, I do not trust Obama at all. I know his loyalties, and they are not with us.

You ask why would Obama set us free? I look at that attitude. The thought precedes the action. If I am reading Obama right, I would be suspicious of a trap further down the road, and maybe he is doing it intentionally because they are not ready to take us over just yet. Quite often vipers will let you lay low, get relaxed and unsuspecting, then strike. I just don't trust him.

[Wayne Bachmann]

Edit is not working at the moment, and I forgot to mention that George Soros controls both parties, and he is not one I would trust either.

[Rosanna Miller]

The false prophet will look like a peace maker....

[Wayne Bachmann]

I think that is hilarious, but I don't think Obama or Soros could fill that bill. Nobody would believe either one of them. If they do, they deserve to be duped!

[Osceola Renegade]

You left out George H W Bush and his Skull and Bones Empire supporting the Bilderbergers and Rothschilds.

Don't forget to research his ever present foot print that is stamped in every catastrophe since Bay of Pigs.

They are there.  And, he has not found the 28,000 tons of Gold shipped from Netherlands by Queen B to Indonesia during Nuremburg Trials.  That's what got Kennedy Killed.

This has been going on since WW II and OBOZO is a mere puppet of Bush; and he may have sided with PUTIN as a fall back plan.

[Wayne Bachmann]

I have a reliable source of info (GRI, it is the main source of info for Glenn Beck, the last I knew, his info accuracy runs between 93-97%) who has revealed a personal discussion between Putin and Obama. It is more than clear that Putin is the one giving orders, and tells Obama when he can go play golf.